Invite them for a conversation if they like to speak on it, it doesn't appear that any here like to talk about it.
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Amillennialism - Why Men Don't Like To Talk About It
- Thread starter ThatTrueLight
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Invite them for a conversation if they like to speak on it, it doesn't appear that any here like to talk about it.
There are literally a thousand reasons why Revelation 20 is future and not past, or even present.
First and foremost it is connected wit Revelation 19 which clearly details His second coming to destroy the beast and the false prophet. That alone proves it is future because its context concerning the beast is connected. Those in Rev 20 are said to not have worshipped the beast or his image.. the same beast destroyed by CHRIST at His coming.
IMO that is simple to see.
The resurrection of the dead is plainly taught to be on the last day, not any time before that. Rev 20 of course speaks of those who were beheaded, and that is usually fatal.
I can literally go on and on here.. and hopefully we have that opportunity.
What I typically find is men spiritualizing this all away into the past or present so that it doesn't actually mean what it says..
Watch for yourselves.
First and foremost it is connected wit Revelation 19 which clearly details His second coming to destroy the beast and the false prophet. That alone proves it is future because its context concerning the beast is connected. Those in Rev 20 are said to not have worshipped the beast or his image.. the same beast destroyed by CHRIST at His coming.
IMO that is simple to see.
The resurrection of the dead is plainly taught to be on the last day, not any time before that. Rev 20 of course speaks of those who were beheaded, and that is usually fatal.
I can literally go on and on here.. and hopefully we have that opportunity.
What I typically find is men spiritualizing this all away into the past or present so that it doesn't actually mean what it says..
Watch for yourselves.
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The thousand year millennial kingdom of Christ is coming when He comes.. and His coming is also to destroy that man of sin, whose coming is also in that Day we all see approaching.
As is the resurrection of the dead..
So many things associated with that coming day.. And that's why all the Prophets write about it, along with the Apostles.
As is the resurrection of the dead..
So many things associated with that coming day.. And that's why all the Prophets write about it, along with the Apostles.
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In this case I don't think Satan cares what they - either side - believe. He knows both sides believe in Christ, so he won't be able to get them there. But what he can do is capitalize on their stiff-neckedness and stubbornness, causing them to become enemies of a sort. When you have Christians disagreeing on something like this, Satan scores points when he stirs them up to making argumentative fools of themselves, leaving the grace of God out of the discussion. In such a case, in their venom toward each other, they sin. Jesus said, if something causes you to sin, cut it off. Apparently some cannot irenically handle discussions on eschatology without going off the deep end of "I'm right, you're wrong," which make them both wrong because they cannot agree to disagree. Satan knows and loves this because he can get Christians to act the opposite of "you shall know them by the love they have for each other." They help make Christianity look bad that way. If they can't talk irenically about it, they should leave the discussion to those who can, to those who are always ready when necessary to say "We, by Jesus' commandment to love each other, agree to disagree."
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Yeah truth doesn't matter, as long as everyone gets along. Let's all sing Kumbaya and pretend it doesn't matter.
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AlasBabylon
Mystic
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My understanding is... amillennialists do believe in Christ's second coming, resurrection, etc...
but they do not believe in a 1000 year literal reign of Christ after which Christ's kingdom is attacked
by human armies [if you think about it... God being literally attacked by humans is nonsensical.]
.
My understanding is... amillennialists do believe in Christ's second coming, resurrection, etc...
but they do not believe in a 1000 year literal reign of Christ after which Christ's kingdom is attacked
by human armies [if you think about it... God being literally attacked by humans is nonsensical.]
.
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The article below does an excellent job of laying out the amill. view of eschatology.
Amillennial Eschatology by Anthony Hoekema
http://www.the-highway.com/amilc_Hoekema.html
.
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AlasBabylon
Mystic
Thanks for the link... it was very interesting... and I agree with much of it...
except Christ's second coming does not play second fiddle to His first coming.
The first time He came as the sacrificial Lamb of God... the second time He comes
as the King of kings who is triumphant over all enemies... including death itself.
Christ's second coming brings to fruition all that He accomplished in His first coming...
He is the firstfruits of those who now sleep in death... awaiting their resurrection.
Those who think their dead are conscious and are having a fun tea party with God in an
invisible heaven [which most pagan religions also believe] do not see the need for Christ
to return a second time.
The Bible teaches the dead are asleep. Like the fairy tale, Sleeping Beauty, they await
the return of their Prince to wake them up.
Like Luther and Tyndale, I too believe those who now sleep in death are unconscious
and their hope for immortality is ONLY in Christ... in Christ's second coming and the
resurrection of the dead.
.
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How do you deal with the following verse if the dead remain unconscious until the resurrection?
Rev_6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Do you believe we have both a body and a soul? If not, how do you deal with the verse below?
Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
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My comment
Amills today have been conditioned by their religious affiliations to believe that the Lord is ruling the earth by proxy through their own kingdom now/dominion theologies
The traditional teaching of amillennialism has been around for centuries and the memberships know of nothing else .... because the Lord's word on the matter has been covered over with the organization's false renderings of scripture even to the extent of keeping the members in the dark .... and some even discourage the study
This is made easier to do particularly when most people have no idea what is going on, do not study the Lord's word, and do not care .... they just belong to a "church" in which they are told that their membership saves them
Amills today have been conditioned by their religious affiliations to believe that the Lord is ruling the earth by proxy through their own kingdom now/dominion theologies
The traditional teaching of amillennialism has been around for centuries and the memberships know of nothing else .... because the Lord's word on the matter has been covered over with the organization's false renderings of scripture even to the extent of keeping the members in the dark .... and some even discourage the study
This is made easier to do particularly when most people have no idea what is going on, do not study the Lord's word, and do not care .... they just belong to a "church" in which they are told that their membership saves them
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Dispensationalists today have been conditioned by their religious affiliations to believe...
the 2 Peoples of God, 2 Purposes of God, 2 Kingdoms of God, 2 Gospels, 2 Second Comings, Scripture "Rightly Divided" into 2 Parts, doctrine. It has come to dominate the evangelical Church in America, with many of those sitting in the pews having no idea there is any other point of view.
Based on thousands of pages of sermons and commentary, no American preacher taught the doctrine at the time our nation was founded.
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AlasBabylon
Mystic
Prophecy and parables use symbols and imagery...
and the book of Revelation is filled with them.
Ask me if I believe in dragons
In the fifth seal the blood of the martyrs symbolically
cries out to God for divine justice... as Abel's blood
cried out when Cain murdered him.
Both Luther and Tyndale believed what the Bible teaches
that when we die we are "asleep" until the resurrection.
Luther said in death's sleep we are not conscious of events
or of the time passing. Luther said when he dies his next
conscious moment will be the resurrection.
Being baptized Lutheran, I have a nice ink drawing of Luther
protectively holding the Bible. When I pass by Luther frozen
in time... protecting God's Word... I think to myself... Luther
is still asleep awaiting the resurrection... blissfully unaware of
the satanic abomination of the current antichrist world order.
.
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[Psalms 115:17; 146.4; Ecclesiastes 9:5]
[Daniel 12:2; Corinthians 15:51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13; Acts 7:60; 13:36]
[Daniel 12:2; Corinthians 15:51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13; Acts 7:60; 13:36]
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Jipsah
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Yeah, the thing to do is embrace a weakly formed doctrine that has little to no clear basis in Scripture, and then declare it be dogma, and that anyone who differs with it is an unbeliever and hell-bound.
Of course, that's intellectually dishonest, unethical, sophomoric, petty, stupid, and altogether unworthy of anyone who names the Name of Christ, but apparently it's a lot of fun.
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Jipsah
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Yet another verse that Dispys can't seem to acknowledge:
Matthew 28:18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth."
On the floor with the Letter to the Hebrews, huh?
Nice try, but I'd bet that, like me, most of us were weaned on Lindseyism, and later discovered it to be a exegetical tower of Jello.
DF has very, very little to do with God's Word. For instance, show me with Scripture how the fig tree that our Lord refers to in the Olivet Discourse has anything to do with Israel. Take your time, I'll wait. (And wait, and wait, and wait...)
So they just get their End Times notions from hucksters like Hal Lindsey and others of his ilk. Gotcha.
When in fact they have to believe your contrived End Times claptrap to be saved, right?
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"your contrived End Times claptrap to be saved, right?"
Do you want to be reported for flaming?
Be careful
Do you want to be reported for flaming?
Be careful
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Jipsah
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That wasn't a flame, it was a statement of fact. The End Times rubbish that you apparently believe must be confessed for one to be saved, is just that, rubbish. It's wholly a product of eisegesis and masses of assumptions that have no basis in Scripture at all. For instance, show me some "blood moon tetrads" in the Bible. Show me temple sacrifice stopping for thousands of years, then starting again, so it can stop again. Show me how when prophet Daniel said 70 weeks of years he really meant a couple of millennia. Show me where the Church is dispensed with in the next "dispensation". You can't, of course. because you know as well as I that without using the all-purpose handy dandy "what that really means" technique, DF comes apart like a $2 watch.
And while we're at it, show me how rather than believing that Jesus Christ is the center of all things, that it's actually Israel we're supposed to be excited about, and that Christ is simply a means of effecting the restoration of Israel. Show me how the hope of Christians isn't the Glorious Return of our Sovereign Lord Christ, but "The Rapture". Pick the Letter to the Hebrews up off the floor where you've tossed it and explain to me how animal sacrifice is gonna reboot in The Millennium, and why it wouldn't be an abomination in the sight of the Lord.
DF has more holes in it than a ripe Swiss cheese, and yet you'd elevate it to the status of eternal truth, like the Virgin Birth, the Crucifixion, the Resurrection, and the Ascension. Sorry, but one has to pretty much be ignorant of both Scripture and history, or willfully ignoring them, to buy such an obvious contrivance.
And BTW, if we're going to play the reporting game, be careful of saying, or implying, that those who don't hold with DF aren't Christians, because I'll go back through each and every post where you or your DF homies have done so and report every one of them. Just so you know, OK?
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