Disobedience has consequences.

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LostMarbels

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As you've repeatedly been told, I'm not looking for proof. Describing the evidence that you used to determine that someone was actually possessed is a good start. It's not exactly rocket science.
It's not like in the movies, allot less dramatic, and much more mundane. But I have seen physical manifestations. Voices changing to inhuman sounds, un-bodied voices in association of the possessed. They lie, beg, threaten, and tell you stuff that's off the wall. I was even with one guy who was possessed and I saw God put us in a shroud. It was the coolest thing. When we stopped praying and decided to leave the table, everyone at the table asked us where we came from, they had not seen us in a while. We were there for a good long time too, but it was like God made sure we weren't disturbed. This I is truth in Christ Jesus name, I ask he bear witness.
 
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LostMarbels

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So why won't you just come out and say that in the end, you do not support freedom of speech and freedom of belief?
Because I will not bow to your coercion any more than I will deny Christ! You will never make me say anything. You do not have that authority over me.

I completely believe, and do confess that this is your life to live as you see fit. You have the complete freedom to say what ever you want. You have absolute free will to believe what you want. However you will still be held to God's will in the end. Live however you chose, but if you do not accept Jesus, you will go to hell. Yes I find God just in this. Yes I agree. How much more absolutely definitive can I be of my position?
 
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Davian

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You just want me to shut up and go away don't you? And take my God nonsense with me. Not happening.
Not at all. You are an active component in the inoculation myself and my children from religion. I appreciate your participation.
As I have previously stated, I claim nothing. I only affirm what I know to be true of what God has claimed.
You mean, what you read in the bible. Or you do hear voices?
 
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Skavau

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Because I will not bow to your coercion any more than I will deny Christ! You will never make me say anything. You do not have that authority over me.
I'm not trying to coerce anything or make you say anything nor do I claim authority.

I tried to, in this thread, spell out what your beliefs literally mean. If you (or anyone) believes in an eternal for non-believers, for non-Christians and believe that punishment to be just then that literally means that you do not support freedom of expression and thought. It means that ultimately, in the end, those values are irrelevant to you if God says otherwise as you believe he does after we die.

It also means that if you believe in a literal hell, as you do, that you're apparently in favour of torture as a punishment.

I completely believe, and do confess that this is your life to live as you see fit. You have the complete freedom to say what ever you want. You have absolute free will to believe what you want. However you will still be held to God's will in the end. Live however you chose, but if you do not accept Jesus, you will go to hell. Yes I find God just in this. Yes I agree. How much more absolutely definitive can I be of my position?

Why is it ethical for me to go to hell for not accepting Jesus?
 
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Davian

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How am I supposed to discuss deep subjects about a God you do not even recognize as real?
Tricky, indeed.
How can I talk about resurrection, healing, or any other of the miracles of God with a crowd that thinks I'm an idiot?
I do not think that the holding of religious beliefs in any way reflects on the quality of one's intellect.
I have some here who have done nothing but mock me and berate everything for hours, and you want me to attempt a deep intelectual conversation?
However, your expectation that others might accept your unevidenced, untestable, and unfalsifiable religious assertions at face value does raise an eyebrow.

spock-brows.jpg
 
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LostMarbels

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I'm not trying to coerce anything or make you say anything nor do I claim authority.

I tried to, in this thread, spell out what your beliefs literally mean. If you (or anyone) believes in an eternal for non-believers, for non-Christians and believe that punishment to be just then that literally means that you do not support freedom of expression and thought. It means that ultimately, in the end, those values are irrelevant to you if God says otherwise as you believe he does after we die.

It also means that if you believe in a literal hell, as you do, that you're apparently in favour of torture as a punishment.
I believe exactly what I have stated, not what you think it means. I speak plainly enough.



Why is it ethical for me to go to hell for not accepting Jesus?

Because the God that created ethics finds it ethical.
 
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LostMarbels

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Did you read this in the Bible? Or did you make this up yourself?
To document that God hates religion, note the following passages of Scripture:

"...every abominable act which the Lord hates they have done for their gods, for they even burn their sons and daughters in the fire to their gods." (Deuteronomy 12:31)

"I have had enough of burnt offerings...Bring your worthless offerings no longer...I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts; they have become a burden to Me... So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you... I will not listen..." (Isaiah 1:10-15)

"I hate, I reject your festivals; nor do I delight in your solemn assemblies...take away from Me the noise of your songs; I will not even listen to the sound of your harps." (Amos 5:21-24)

These passages bear out the fact that God hates religion, and all of its procedures and programs; rituals and regulations.

Religion is inevitably the result of man taking that which is of God and forming it, formulating it, in such a way that men end up "playing God." Men can form idols out of wood or stone in an attempt to represent God, or they can formulate ideological idols (belief-systems, doctrinal definitions, theological theses). The men who thus form and formulate become the "chief priests" of the new religion because they are regarded as knowing the most about what God is like, and well they should for they formed "it."

There are three features which seem to be basic to all forms of man-made religion. Religion involves absolutism, authoritarianism and activism. Now there is nothing wrong with absolutes, authority or activity. God is absolute, authoritative and active. But when any man or group of men attempts to establish themselves as the arbiters or regulators of God's absoluteness, authority or activity, they then begin to "play god," and religion is the result as they impose their perspective of absolute, authority and activity on others.

Mat 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
Mat 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
 
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Skavau

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I believe exactly what I have stated, not what you think it means. I speak plainly enough.
That is what it means. Sorry.

I am in favour of people going to prison for murder. This means I am in favour of incarceration for certain crimes including murder.

You are in favour of God torturing people for not believing in him. This means that there is an instance in which you support torture and punishing people for what they think.

Because the God that created ethics finds it ethical.
This is a meaningless comment. God could do anything for any or no reason and you'd call it ethical. "Ethics" itself has no independent meaning in your worldview.
 
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LostMarbels

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That is what it means. Sorry.

I am in favour of people going to prison for murder. This means I am in favour of incarceration for certain crimes including murder.

You are in favour of God torturing people for not believing in him. This means that there is an instance in which you support torture and punishing people for what they think.
From what I have come to understand the second death is when hell is destroyed in the lake of fire. And death. The second death is also the exclusion of eternal life. I would believe those who are in hell cease to exist. I do not know that hell isn't anymore than a jail. Torturer, Torment.... physical or perceived, I do not fully know. Hell is confusing. I need to do allot more research to completely understand it. But I do accept it's validity.


This is a meaningless comment. God could do anything for any or no reason and you'd call it ethical. "Ethics" itself has no independent meaning in your worldview.

God is sovereign. I cannot judge him. It is was it is.
 
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