why is Oneness unorthodox/frowned upon?

Architeuthus

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The bible never says God is not one. Twice it refers to God as one and never as three. This makes no sense to me. Apostolic's are persecuted for this belief and to me It makes no sense.

The Bible says that God is one; but it also says that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.
 
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A New Dawn

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Oneness is a form of modalism, which teaches that the three parts of the Trinity are all the same being. That they progress from one to the other and are never all around at the same time. The Bible speaks against that, and even shows "pictures" that it is not true. For instance, at the time Jesus is baptized, all three are present at the same time.
 
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Wgw

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The doctrine of trinity does not negate the concept of one God, for as Metropolitan Kallistos aware expresses it, the Trinity or Godhead is three persons existing in a union of perfect, absolute love. We are called upon, His Eminence goes on to say, to make our homes, our families, our church, and so on, a loving icon of the Trinity. But three persons does not mean three gods. We are not tritheists. The three persons of the Trinity are consubstantial; they have one essence, and that divine essence is incomprehensible and unknowable. We know of the persons of the Trinity only through the uncreated energies of God, which are knowable, just as we know the sun by its rays.
 
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Wgw

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In the 4th century, the Arians savagely persecuted the Trinitarians after Eusebius of Nicomedia managed to convert Emperor Constantius, the successor of St. Constantine in the Eastern Empire, to Arianism. The Egyptian population, which was virtually unanimous in supporting St. Athanasius and the Trinitarians, for years suffered a progression of robber Parson's intruding on the See of St. Mark.
 
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ParkerTrace

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Jesus is one. Its scriptural above all, but also doctrinal for Apostalic Pentecostals. (UPCI)
Dueteronomy 6:4, Revelation 7:15-17, Colossians 2:9, Matthew 28:18, Ephesians 4:5-6, John 10:30, James 2:19, and Revelation 4:2 all exhibit just how "one" Jesus is.
 
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he-man

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Jesus is one. Its scriptural above all, but also doctrinal for Apostalic Pentecostals. (UPCI)
Dueteronomy 6:4, Revelation 7:15-17, Colossians 2:9, Matthew 28:18, Ephesians 4:5-6, John 10:30, James 2:19, and Revelation 4:2 all exhibit just how "one" Jesus is.
Col 2:23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
 
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Are you suggesting the UPCI doctrine of oneness is heretical?
We are here to debate, not cast out personal judgements. If you can't back up your doctrine with scripture then you should not nreply
If UPCI is "Oneness Pentacostal", then yes, it is considered a heresy because the Bible is clear that God is three persons in one God, all of them present at the same time.
 
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OldFashionGal

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If UPCI is "Oneness Pentacostal", then yes, it is considered a heresy because the Bible is clear that God is three persons in one God, all of them present at the same time.

I think on this topic that there is a lot that can quote scriptures on both sides to support their beliefs. I have heard both but I am not here to decide which is right as if there is a God surely in the end we will know if they are all one or a trinity.
 
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A New Dawn

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I think on this topic that there is a lot that can quote scriptures on both sides to support their beliefs. I have heard both but I am not here to decide which is right as if there is a God surely in the end we will know if they are all one or a trinity.
You are free to think whatever you like, however, this site has a terms of service, and one of those terms is that it describes Christianity as those who agree with the Nicene Creed and the Trinitarian nature of God.
 
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Shane R

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No one has yet mentioned the use of Elohim in the OT. The word is plural. Oneness advocates have typically not done good research in historical theology because their view was taught long ago by Sabellius and thoroughly refuted and condemned as heresy by the church fathers.
 
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Wgw

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Are you suggesting the UPCI doctrine of oneness is heretical?
We are here to debate, not cast out personal judgements. If you can't back up your doctrine with scripture then you should not nreply

The Orthodox, Eastern and Oriental, along with the Catholics and the Assyrian Church of the East, who together are being martyred in Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and Libya, reject Sola Scriptura. For us, the Bible is part of Holy Tradition. The New Testament was written by the Church, for the Church, as evinced by the fact that the books you find in your New Testament were first assembled into a definitive canon by St. Athansius, the most ardent champion of the Nicene Creed and of the Holy Trinity.

So I will argue against your position Biblically, from a different angle. If you wish to be Sabellian, you should not base your argument on the canon of New Testament books compiled by St. Athanasius who was Trinitarian. Rather, you should invoke scriptures Athansius and the other fathers of the early Church deemed heretical, which lend more support to the Sabellian position. Or, to be brutally honest, write your own.

Because there is no historical evidence at all to suggest that the books that comprise the New Testament were co-opted by Trinitarians.

One of the earliest critics of Sabellianism was St. Irenaeus. Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp, who in turn was a disciple of St. John the Beloved Disciple, who was the last of the apostles to die, around AD 90. And St. Irenaeus espouses a theology that almost precisely aligns with the modern beliefs of the Orthodox Church, the one difference being he was premillenial, whereas the consensus shifted towards an amillenial interpretation.

But all of the beliefs, and even the worship practices, of the Orthodox, and the Assyrians (and the Roman Catholics before the Great Schism, and liturgically, before Vatican II), can be traced to the Apostolic fathers like Ss. Ignatius, Polycarp, Clement, Justin Martyr and Dionysius the Aereopagite. And it beggars belief to suggest that these men, who were primarily responsible for the propagation of Christianity after the death of the Twelve and the Seventy, would intentionally or unwittingly distort the teachings of the Apostles. But people like Simon Magus, Marcion, Sabellius, Valentinus, Montanus and Arius started cropping up immediately, Simon Magus almost right after Pentecost, and fought relentlessly to corrupt the teachings of the Church.

But the four ancient communions who embraced Nicea, to wit, the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Roman Catholic Church, are still here, whereas the various ancient non-orthodox sects are all extinct. The last surviving one, the Paulicans, lingered on in the mountains of Armenia until the 19th century, when the Armenian bishops successfully evangelized them to Orthodoxy.
 
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Architeuthus

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The Orthodox, Eastern and Oriental ... reject Sola Scriptura.

Really?

"...we are not entitled to such license, namely, of affirming whatever we please. For we make Sacred Scripture the rule and the norm of every doctrine. Upon that we are obliged to fix our eyes, and we approve only whatever can be brought into harmony with the intent of these writings." -- St. Gregory of Nyssa (330-395)
 
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Architeuthus

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Jesus is one. Its scriptural above all, but also doctrinal for Apostalic Pentecostals. (UPCI)
Dueteronomy 6:4, Revelation 7:15-17, Colossians 2:9, Matthew 28:18, Ephesians 4:5-6, John 10:30, James 2:19, and Revelation 4:2 all exhibit just how "one" Jesus is.

Scripture clearly teaches that God is one, but Matthew 3:16, Matthew 28:18-20, John 1:1-2, Rev 7:10, etc. also draw a clear distinction between the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The doctrine of the Trinity is how we reconcile those statements of Scripture.

Are you suggesting the UPCI doctrine of oneness is heretical?

Yes, it is heretical, because it contradicts the Nicene Creed and the many Scripture passages which support the doctrine of the Trinity.

We believe in (Romans 10:8-10; 1John 4:15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6:4, Ephesians 4:6)
the Father (Matthew 6:9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6:3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1:1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1:15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11:17)
the Son of God, (Mathew 14:33; 16:16)
the Only-Begotten, (John 1:18; 3:16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1:2)
Light of Light; (Psalm 27:1; John 8:12; Matthew 17:2,5)
True God of True God; (John 17:1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1:18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10:30)
by whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1:1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1Timothy 2:4-5)
came down from Heaven, (John 6:33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, (Luke 1:35)
and became man. (John 1:14)
And was crucified for us (Mark 15:25; 1Cointhians 15:3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19:6)
and suffered, (Mark 8:31)
and was buried. (Luke 23:53; 1Corinthians 15:4)
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures. (Luke 24:1 1Corinthians 15:4)
And ascended into Heaven, (Luke 24:51; Acts 1:10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father. (Mark 16:19; Acts 7:55)
And He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24:27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10:42; 2Timothy 4:1)
whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1:11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14:26)
the Lord, (Acts 5:3-4)v
the Giver of Life, (Genesis 1:2)
Who proceeds from the Father; (John 15:26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3:16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19:20 ; Ezekiel 11:5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2:5,9)
catholic, (Mark 16:15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2:42; Ephesians 2:19-22)

I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. (Ephesians 4:5; Acts 2:38)
I look for the resurrection of the dead, (John 11:24; 1Corinthians 15:12-49; Hebrews 6:2; Revelation 20:5)
and the life of the world to come. (Mark 10:29-30)
AMEN. (Psalm 106:48)
 
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mizzkittenzz

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Are you suggesting the UPCI doctrine of oneness is heretical?
We are here to debate, not cast out personal judgements. If you can't back up your doctrine with scripture then you should not nreply

Go back to Genesis, God said let US make man in OUR image, " us and our" is plural.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John:1:1 (Jesus is the Word)

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John:8:58 (Jesus has always existed alongside the Father)

All you have to do is read the bible and you will see loads of proof on the Trinity, and none on Oneness. Oneness teaches just Jesus only, the Trinity teaches about the Godhead as a whole.
 
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Wgw

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Really?

"...we are not entitled to such license, namely, of affirming whatever we please. For we make Sacred Scripture the rule and the norm of every doctrine. Upon that we are obliged to fix our eyes, and we approve only whatever can be brought into harmony with the intent of these writings." -- St. Gregory of Nyssa (330-395)

Contrary to popular belief, St. Gregory of a Nyassa is not the infallible voice of rhe Orthodox Church. We love much of what he had to say, but he was wrong about apocatastasis and several other points. He is less important than his brother St. Basil whose contribution was immense.

However, that said, nothing in what St. Gregory wrote that you quoted implies Sola Scriptura. Every Orthodox doctrine is based on Scripture; Scripture is the heart of Sacred Tradition, and the rest of Sacred Tradition is concerned either with the interpretation or propagation of Holy Scripture and the teachings contained therein. Every doctrine we hold dear is underpinned by scripture, and none of our doctrines are contrary to scripture properly interpreted. This is why we justify our use of icons, our doctrine of the Eucharist, et cetera, with scripture, and why we use scripture to fight off heresy. For example, in rejecting sola Scriptura, we justify this based on the fact that sola Scriptura is unscriptural; whereas St. Paul expressly commands that the traditions handed down from the Apostles be preserved and disseminated.

However, because scripture can be interpreted inaccurately, primarily by reading verses out of context, but also through subtle semantic manipulations, Holy Tradition is vital, to provide a canon of correct interpretation, or to be more precise, to demarcate the boundaries of correct interpretation. We define what is wrong more than what is right, so the faithful have great leeway to form their own opinions within what I would call the Pale of Orthodoxy. Thus some Orthodox believe in evolution and others are creationists. We don't formally say whether Genesis is a literal work of history or an allegory, or a typological prophecy, or some combination of the three.

Holy tradition, based on the ending of Matthew, and the content of the other Gospels, the book of Acts, and the rest of the New Testament, does positively define the Trinity: three persons of one substance, whose shared essence is incomprehensible and unknowable, but who are known through their energies. These three persons exist in a union of perfect love and are eternal, immutable, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, and incapable of evil by definition.
 
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