Which Protestant Body...

CelticRebel · May 24, 2015

All4Christ said:
Perhaps it is similar to my old church's beliefs...assurance of salvation = "as long as you are trying to follow God, you can be assured of salvation...however it is possible to turn your back on God and lose your salvation." Whereas "eternal security"= OSAS (impossible to lose salvation once you are born again)

That is correct. And this is the view also of the General Baptists and Free Will baptists.

CelticRebel · May 24, 2015

Albion said:
Sixty posts later, and the answer given in the first three posts is still the best answer.

But we're having so much fun.

Albion · May 24, 2015

CelticRebel said:
But we're having so much fun.

I can see that.

So, carry on and I'll watch.

CelticRebel · May 24, 2015

Albion said:
I can see that. So, carry on and I'll watch.

Jump in anytime you wish. Your postings have always been of much help to me.

Jesus4Madrid · May 24, 2015

High Church Conservative Anglicans. All three of them!

Albion · May 24, 2015

Jesus4Madrid said:
High Church Conservative Anglicans. All three of them!

Why don't we just say "Anglican"...because although there are different parties within the church, the ordinary, everyday Anglican church's usual teachings and practice probably does provide the best answer to the question after all.

.

CelticRebel · May 24, 2015

Albion said:
Why don't we just say "Anglican"...because although there are different parties within the church, the ordinary, everyday Anglican church's usual teachings and practice probably does provide the best answer to the question after all.

.

Perhaps. But the Anglican Communion does seem to follow an Augustinian view rather than that of Athanasius. And every theory of atonement known to man is contained within Anglicanism. Also, views of the sacraments run from Zwinglian memorialism and symbolism on one end to Anglo-Catholic on the other. I actually like the diversity, for the most part.

Still, I see what you're saying, in that Anglicanism is accommodating to Orthodox views.

Albion · May 24, 2015

CelticRebel said:
Perhaps. But the Anglican Communion does seem to follow an Augustinian view rather than that of Athanasius. And every theory of atonement known to man is contained within Anglicanism. Also, views of the sacraments run from Zwinglian memorialism and symbolism on one end to Anglo-Catholic on the other. I actually like the diversity, for the most part.

Still, I see what you're saying, in that Anglicanism is accommodating to Orthodox views.

Yes, that might be the best way to say it. I do take exception to that memorialism comment, but otherwise I'd agree pretty much to what you've said here.

CelticRebel · May 24, 2015

Albion said:
Yes, that might be the best way to say it. I do take exception to that memorialism comment, but otherwise I'd agree pretty much to what you've said here.

I didn't say memorialism was a widely held view of the Lord's Supper, but it has been held.

Albion · May 24, 2015

CelticRebel said:
I didn't say memorialism was a widely held view of the Lord's Supper, but it has been held.

I'm sure it has, but it not only has such a small following that I think it's misleading to include it in such an overview. It probably has some following in Orthodoxy, too, for that matter, as we know it does among Roman Catholics.

In addition, I said that an ordinary Anglican CHURCH would be a good choice, and there is nothing in any Anglican formulary, the Book of Common Prayer, the Articles, the Quadrilateral or anything else like that which does anything but close the door on Memorialism. That's what I meant.

CelticRebel · May 24, 2015

Albion said:
I'm sure it has, but it not only has such a small following that I think it's misleading to include it in such an overview. It probably has some following in Orthodoxy, too, for that matter, as we know it does among Roman Catholics.

In addition, I said that an ordinary Anglican CHURCH would be a good choice, and there is nothing in any Anglican formulary, the Book of Common Prayer, the Articles, the Quadrilateral or anything else like that which does anything but close the door on Memorialism. That's what I meant.

Okay, I understand. The same could also be said about transsubstantiation. It is held by Anglo-Catholics but not affirmed in the doctrinal standards.

Albion · May 24, 2015

CelticRebel said:
Okay, I understand. The same could also be said about transsubstantiation. It is held by Anglo-Catholics but not affirmed in the doctrinal standards.

But it's not common, even among them. However, to the extent that it is, it would be easier to square with the church's documents, statements, etc. than would Memorialism. I guess this is a particular issue with me--the idea that almost anything imaginable is as accepted or acceptable among Anglicans as anything else. Yet, that's often said.

While people whose beliefs are way out of the mainstream of historic Christianity can be found in the pews of some provinces and parishes, that owes more to tolerance than to the church itself having no identifiable beliefs.

CelticRebel · May 24, 2015

Albion said:
But it's not common, even among them. However, to the extent that it is, it would be easier to square with the church's documents, statements, etc. than would Memorialism. I guess this is a particular issue with me--the idea that almost anything imaginable is as accepted or acceptable among Anglicans as anything else. Yet, that's often said.

While people whose beliefs are way out of the mainstream of historic Christianity can be found in the pews of some provinces and parishes, that owes more to tolerance than to the church itself having no identifiable beliefs.

Yes, again I understand what you're saying. Anglicanism has doctrinal standards, but the Elizabethan Settlement was the catalyst for a broad comprehensiveness in Anglicanism. Some view that as a weakness and some as a strength.

Mary of Bethany · May 25, 2015

Albion said:
Why don't we just say "Anglican"...because although there are different parties within the church, the ordinary, everyday Anglican church's usual teachings and practice probably does provide the best answer to the question after all.

.

Nice to see you in here, Albion. As a former Continuing Anglican, I agree that traditional Anglicanism is as close to Orthodoxy as any western tradition.

ArmyMatt · May 26, 2015

Mary of Bethany said:
Nice to see you in here, Albion. As a former Continuing Anglican, I agree that traditional Anglicanism is as close to Orthodoxy as any western tradition.

seconded. one of my great grandmother's grandfathers was a turn of the 20th century Anglican priest and my family still has some of his homilies. they sound incredibly Orthodox.

All4Christ · May 26, 2015

ArmyMatt said:
seconded. one of my great grandmother's grandfathers was a turn of the 20th century Anglican priest and my family still has some of his homilies. they sound incredibly Orthodox.

Considering that the Western Orthodox services are sometimes patterned directly off the Anglican services...I would think that it is fairly close, though I can't say I have been to the services (I have been to Episcopalian though). When I was looking for a church prior to Orthodoxy, the Episcopalian churches' liberal beliefs on morality (the ones I looked at around me at least) made me look elsewhere. Are the Anglican and Episcopalian beliefs similar on issues of ethics and morals? Do they differ on a church to church basis?

Albion · May 26, 2015

All4Christ said:
Considering that the Western Orthodox services are sometimes patterned directly off the Anglican services...I would think that it is fairly close, though I can't say I have been to the services (I have been to Episcopalian though). When I was looking for a church prior to Orthodoxy, the Episcopalian churches' liberal beliefs on morality (the ones I looked at around me at least) made me look elsewhere. Are the Anglican and Episcopalian beliefs similar on issues of ethics and morals? Do they differ on a church to church basis?

All4Christ · May 26, 2015

I don't see a response included with the quote...?

Albion · May 26, 2015

All4Christ said:
I don't see a response included with the quote...?

Ah. Thank you. Upon finishing it, I hit something unintentionally and could not find the thread again. Here 'tis:

"When I was looking for a church prior to Orthodoxy, the Episcopalian churches' liberal beliefs on morality (the ones I looked at around me at least) made me look elsewhere. Are the Anglican and Episcopalian beliefs similar on issues of ethics and morals? Do they differ on a church to church basis?"

The two indeed do differ, and this may be the issue that really is responsible for the split. The gay agenda or women's ordination are often thought to be the causes, but it is the case that those were the proximate causes or "final straws" (depending on which Anglican jurisdiction we're talking about. Underlying them both (and revisions to the Book of Common Prayer) was something more fundamental that had been growing for years--progressively liberal views on ethics and morals vs. the traditional view that had previously been characteristic of Anglicanism.

On the second question, I am not sure what you have in mind when you say "church to church basis" so perhaps I'd better wait for a followup for clarification. Is that "parish to parish" or "jurisdiction to jurisdiction" or something else?

All4Christ · May 26, 2015

Albion said:
Ah. Thank you. Upon finishing it, I hit something unintentionally and could not find the thread again. Here 'tis:

"When I was looking for a church prior to Orthodoxy, the Episcopalian churches' liberal beliefs on morality (the ones I looked at around me at least) made me look elsewhere. Are the Anglican and Episcopalian beliefs similar on issues of ethics and morals? Do they differ on a church to church basis?"

The two indeed do differ, and this may be the issue that really is responsible for the split. The gay agenda or women's ordination are often thought to be the causes, but it is the case that those were the proximate causes or "final straws" (depending on which Anglican jurisdiction we're talking about. Underlying them both (and revisions to the Book of Common Prayer) was something more fundamental that had been growing for years--progressively liberal views on ethics and morals vs. the traditional view that had previously been characteristic of Anglicanism.

On the second question, I am not sure what you have in mind when you say "church to church basis" so perhaps I'd better wait for a followup for clarification. Is that "parish to parish" or "jurisdiction to jurisdiction" or something else?

Since I always need to refer to parishes as churches when talking to my family (Pentecostal), I tend to switch to that terminology any time I talk about Protestant churches

sorry about that. I guess either parish to parish or jurisdiction to jurisdiction would work with my question.

Which Protestant Body...

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