Anything But...

duolos said:

It's called Dispensationalism

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There is no shortage of bad "isms" but dispensationalism is one of the most heinous and twisted of all, IMHO.

ThatTrueLight said:

Definitely the most hated ism that the rulers of this dark world want to go away.. but it just gets more obvious as we see that Day approaching. Their only hope is getting men to preach that it's in the past. To bad for them.

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I'm of the opposite opinion, it's one that the powers of darkness want to keep in vogue because it cripples the witness of so many, whether it be for the dissonant Rapturism, that time and time again falls on its face with its ludicrous predictions, or the infatuation with Israel without offering them what should be the greatest love of our hearts.

ThatTrueLight said:

Once again, another perfect example of anything but. If the word of God says that the Holy Spirit had not yet been given, to you it means that it has been given.

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Once again an example of reading into my post what you want to hear in light of what you don't understand but think you do.

ThatTrueLight said:

That's what Pentecost was all about right, since the HS had already been given as you say, God had to resend.

What a joke.

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With an answer like that, it's safe for me to conclude you *think* you understand Pentecost, and you have no clue how to answer. It demonstrates a very superficial understanding of Pentecost. Of course the Holy Spirit was given...the point being the New Covenant had not been instituted by the Lord. Pentecost involves the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the believer of course...but in your case obviously that's all you get from Pentecost. What a shame!

"There is no shortage of bad "isms" but dispensationalism is one of the most heinous and twisted of all"


Do you know who the master twister is that beckons you about this matter?

duolos said:

You do know that that's how Israel are described right?

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I might catch some flack from this, but sometimes you have to swallow your pride when it comes to Gods word. So here we go.

I have to agree that the out called ones as whole are Israel (not New Israel, Just Israel in the covenant that always has been) in the following sense.

There has only been one covenant people and that was from Abraham through Israel.

There has never been 2 separate salvation plans, one for Israel and one for the church. Salvation for all goes through the Gospel message of Christ who came out of the roots of Israel more specifically the line of Judah.

When we as Christians accept Christ, we literally are grafted as new citizens into the original covenant promises of Abraham through Israel.

The problem is there has been this division of the whole house since the time of the divide under Jeroboam in which the they split into 2. The northern 10 tribes Israel and the southern 2 tribes Judah. Throughout Gods word he has been dealing with this divide ever since.

Another issue is that God divorced Israel (10 tribes), but said in there very place where they shall become not Gods people they will be known as the sons of the living God. They mixed themselves among the nations. Became a multitude of people, nations and kindreds!

How will God deal with this divide?

We see a picture in Zechariah of the 2 olive tree and the 7 candle menorah. The Menorah represents the Church, and the olive trees on each side can represent the 2 houses of Israel divided. The 2 houses supply the fuel for the Church. How through Christ, which is God of Israel (the whole house). He unites unifies both Houses and breaks down the divide through Christ!

All it is, is that the out called ones are partially blind to its roots in Israel, and Judah is partially Blind to their messiah that never divorced them.

If Christ is the chief cornerstone of Israel, the Groom of Israel awaiting its bride, and both houses are united and no longer divided through the only salvation plan which is Christ. By that we are all heirs to the same promise. We are all the out called ones, then we are the bride of Israel united as one.

Do not mix the Lord's salvation plan with His plan to preserve a national people Israel separate from the nations of the Gentiles for His future purposes [Romans 11]

You know the first plan .... learn the second one [Isaiah 11; 27:12-13; Jeremiah 30; 31:31-37; Ezekiel 34; 35; 36; 37; 38; 39; 40-48; Daniel 9; 12; Joel 2; 3; Micah 5; Zechariah 12; 13; 14; Matthew 24:29-31; Revelation 12]

Straightshot said:

Do not mix the Lord's salvation plan with His plan to preserve a national people Israel separate from the nations of the Gentiles for His future purposes [Romans 11]

You know the first plan .... learn the second one [Isaiah 11; 27:12-13; Jeremiah 30; 31:31-37; Ezekiel 34; 35; 36; 37; 38; 39; 40-48; Daniel 9; 12; Joel 2; 3; Micah 5; Zechariah 12; 13; 14; Matthew 24:29-31; Revelation 12]

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I'm not saying the "Church" have replaced Israel, they never have and never will and I don't confuse the 2. I'm saying that they are part of the same root of promise making them one and the same. If you are speaking concerning the Physical aspect of the nation of Israel, I agree he still has a plan for them as a physical natioion. But even the physical nation are only part of the Root stock of promise by faith through Christ.

ThatTrueLight said:

For me one of the central keys here is Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Reading those stories in the OT teaches us just about everything with respect to His story..

Abraham taking his only begotten son to the mountain to worship, where God would provide himself a lamb.

Abraham burying his wife Sarah.

Abraham sending his servant to find a bride for Issac.

Abraham then having many children

Those stories ground us in how it all started and where it goes, even up to end times.

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I absolutely agree. Studying about the birthright, and kingly line promises from Abraham through the splitting if the tribes is amazing. It really shows us God's amazing control of the nation's and history even in our current times.

As a matter of fact that's what clearly shows that even though we are one in Christ and what I believe the Church and Israel are the same. He will push and pull on the physical descendants of Israel to make his purposes come to pass.

And the above noted controversy between Israel and Islam is still going and as the world watches

And few understand that it is this very offset instituted by the Lord that is bring on the coming 70th week decreed for Israel

No man can stop this day that is coming .... the time of Jacob's trouble .... and the prophets have the details of the events that are about to break out upon a world of unbelief

The Lord is going to unleash His unprecedented wrath upon those who refuse Him [Psalms 2; Matthew 24:36-39; Jude 1:14-15; Revelation 6:12-17]

This world is ripe for His judgment and the professing "church" is in tatters .... practically nothing left .... no revival in sight

Islam I believe is the main player involved in these end times that Satan is empowering. Allah has set himself higher than Christ, claiming that he is God.

Yes, and know that "Allah" is a cover for Satan

The fictitious pagan crescent moon "god" of the Assyrians and Babylonians does not exist

This "Allah" was the pick of Mohammed for his god Allah

The Muslims do not know that they are worshiping Satan

Clemenslee -- deep insight! The whole question of Israel's division and Ephraim's annihilation are important ones. Also, what do God's repeated assertions that Ephraim is his first born mean? -- and some of these come after the northern kingdom's annihilation!