Subduction Zone
Regular Member
What!? Of course it does. The SDA's believe the Catholic church to be the embodiment of the beast of Revelation, the Catholics have a totally different belief of what their God is.
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How many dozens of Christians did creationism drive away this past hour?
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What!? Of course it does. The SDA's believe the Catholic church to be the embodiment of the beast of Revelation, the Catholics have a totally different belief of what their God is.
Mr Strawberry
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Lol, ok, so the god who insists his followers take the bible literally or else it's roasting time for you, sunshine, is identical to the god who doesn't. I see.
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Davian
fallible
Yet another lame attempt to shift the burden of evidence away from yourself.
Do we put reality up for a vote now?
Would you extend that same courtesy to those that claim to have been abducted by extraterrestrial aliens, in the absence of evidence to support their claims?
In the absence of evidence for gods, is that feeling not justified?
Indeed. You do understand what parsimonious means, don't you? Occam's Razor, and all that?
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Oncedeceived
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Don't just keep asserting the same thing, show where they worship a different God.
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Subduction Zone
Regular Member
I cannot make it any more obvious than I have. If you think that Catholics believe their own church to be the embodiment of the beast of Revelation I cannot help you.
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Oncedeceived
Senior Veteran
There is one necessary element in Christianity, do they believe that Christ is the Son of God and died for our sins and rose again. IF they don't believe that they are not Christian, if they believe that someone who has accepted Christ's death for their sins is going to hell they are going against the Christian Faith and can not be called Christian. People can interpret many things but they must believe in God the Father and Jesus the Son died for our sins and rose again to be Christian and that means they all worship the same God.
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Subduction Zone
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And you do not seem to understand that there are many different versions of that God. There are many Christians that would disagree with your statement. Their are many Christians that believe other Christians are going to hell because they do not have the proper "beliefs".
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Mr Strawberry
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Except young earth creationist evolution rejectors aren't worshipping a god who made man through evolution on a 4.5 billion year old earth. They are worshipping a god who literally did everything it says in the bible. That's not the same character as is worshipped by people who take an allegorical view of bible stories. How can you even begin to pretend to yourself that it is? Look, what the believers project onto their god with their interpretations and differing beliefs alters the character of that god. They are defining the god with their beliefs. The different sets of beliefs cannot have identical gods because if they did then all their interpretations and beliefs would be the same. They are worshipping different gods who do things in different ways and who have different opinions about what they want their followers to believe and who dish out different consequences for holding those opinions. I know this may cause problems for you as you believe you have a personal relationship with the one true god, but I'm afraid so does every other believer and their relationship is with a different god than yours. This isn't news.
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Oncedeceived
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I've never claimed that experiences can be demonstrated. What can be has been and you have chosen to view them differently. Israel is once again a nation. The Bible claimed over 2,000 years ago that it would happen. The Bible claimed that the universe had a beginning, at the time it was written the universe was thought to have always existed. The Bible claims that God created the universe for life to exist to understand the universe, we do.
People who have a problem with reality are not the norm, millions of Christians and other believer's are the norm and those who do not believe are the ones outside the norm.
I simply don't care.
You can find justification for all sorts of things.
I do.
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Blue Wren
Well-Known Member
You spend much of your time, on this forum, it seems. I think that people have probably described, how it is allegorical for you, many times. You wrote in another thread, that your own mother, was totally wrong, because she believed in old earth creation. She has scriptures, and science, to support her belief. That is not relevant, as you are certain, you are absolutely correct, on your interpretation. How could anything, I, or anybody else writes, no matter how clear, how much evidence, make a difference, to you? You just respond with sarcasm, & false dichotomies.
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Gods are wonderful because they can always be whatever people want them to be, imaginary friends do exactly what imaginary friends are supposed to do.
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I've tried reading through this thread and it is so confused and so many points of view it made my head hurt.
So I have just one comment and if it has been stated before or sounds simplistic; so be it.
This is more to those who call them selves Christians, as the rest have made up their minds long ago. If you are a Christian; that means you believe in God; Christ and the Bible. Leaving out evolution; as there is short-tem evolution; then you must believe God created the universe; as the Bible states; That Jesus as the Word of God, was there; and all things were made by, for, and through Him, and He was God.
It takes faith that God created the universe by His infinite power; but that is easy compared to believing that the universe was made from nothing.
So those who don't want to believe in God; get Christians to debating about evolution using their rules of debate; science and pseudo-science; when we should be using the same rules as when we believe God created the universe; faith, as our understanding of this world/universe is finite; but God is infinite.
So I have just one comment and if it has been stated before or sounds simplistic; so be it. This is more to those who call them selves Christians, as the rest have made up their minds long ago. If you are a Christian; that means you believe in God; Christ and the Bible. Leaving out evolution; as there is short-tem evolution; then you must believe God created the universe; as the Bible states; That Jesus as the Word of God, was there; and all things were made by, for, and through Him, and He was God.
It takes faith that God created the universe by His infinite power; but that is easy compared to believing that the universe was made from nothing.
So those who don't want to believe in God; get Christians to debating about evolution using their rules of debate; science and pseudo-science; when we should be using the same rules as when we believe God created the universe; faith, as our understanding of this world/universe is finite; but God is infinite.
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Davian
fallible
Yet you continue to present them as if they have that kind of significance. That you cannot is evidence that they are only imaginary.
Indeed. I ask that they be demonstrated to be something other than imaginary.
Unfalsifiable assertions. This is not science.
Dodge. I asked, do we put reality up for a vote now?
Why not? Does not that they think of their experiences as real count to you?
Dodge. I asked, In the absence of evidence for gods, is that feeling [that your experiences are only imagined] not justified?
Do you feel that your particular beliefs and experiences should be exempt from Occam's Razor?
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Givemeareason
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The problem you are having is that your logic is flawed. Surely someone has pointed this out to you. You are starting out with what you believe and then looking for evidence to support it. Can you see all the possibilities you might believe in using this approach?
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Oncedeceived
Senior Veteran
I've tried reading through this thread and it is so confused and so many points of view it made my head hurt.
This is more to those who call them selves Christians, as the rest have made up their minds long ago. If you are a Christian; that means you believe in God; Christ and the Bible. Leaving out evolution; as there is short-tem evolution; then you must believe God created the universe; as the Bible states; That Jesus as the Word of God, was there; and all things were made by, for, and through Him, and He was God.
It takes faith that God created the universe by His infinite power; but that is easy compared to believing that the universe was made from nothing.
So those who don't want to believe in God; get Christians to debating about evolution using their rules of debate; science and pseudo-science; when we should be using the same rules as when we believe God created the universe; faith, as our understanding of this world/universe is finite; but God is infinite.
I am not sure what you are wanting Christian to do here?
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Blue Wren
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I've tried reading through this thread and it is so confused and so many points of view it made my head hurt.
This is more to those who call them selves Christians, as the rest have made up their minds long ago. If you are a Christian; that means you believe in God; Christ and the Bible. Leaving out evolution; as there is short-tem evolution; then you must believe God created the universe; as the Bible states; That Jesus as the Word of God, was there; and all things were made by, for, and through Him, and He was God.
It takes faith that God created the universe by His infinite power; but that is easy compared to believing that the universe was made from nothing.
So those who don't want to believe in God; get Christians to debating about evolution using their rules of debate; science and pseudo-science; when we should be using the same rules as when we believe God created the universe; faith, as our understanding of this world/universe is finite; but God is infinite.
I don't think that it's people who don't believe in God, who got Christians, into debating about evolution, no. It was the fundamentalists, who decided that evolution was a threat, to the Bible & began instigating feuds.
I read this book, after it was recommended, by someone here, and it's quite good. http://www.amazon.com/Darwins-Forgotten-Defenders-Evangelical-Evolutionary/dp/1573830933
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Oncedeceived
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Christians have evidence of God and go from that point out. You don't have that evidence so you go from that point out. WE don't just "believe" something. We know someone who is the Christian God. So it is not that our logic is flawed, in fact, logic must be from God's own rational mind or logic and reason resting on the evolutionary position are not meant to be truths but just what someone must believe.
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