Who Made This Statement re Joseph Smith?

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Red Fox

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Why not ask any of the Old Testament prophets what the difference is

Speaking of adultery, isn't there a command in the OT to stone a woman whose caught in the act of adultery (never mind the man she's caught with?)?

I would say it's a very good thing that this command is no longer being obeyed for the sake of a lot of women (and the men?) who unfortunately fall into it.
 
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Ironhold

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What's the difference between serial adultery and multiple wives?

"As for me, I would rather have seated beside me in this chamber a polygamist who doesn't polyg than a monogamist who doesn't monag." - Senator Boies Penrose (R-Penn) in response to the Smoot Hearings.

Plural marriage means that the husband has a legal and moral obligation to provide for and support each wife and the children created by each union.

Serial adultery, however, is simply one person hopping between beds as they see fit, with no thought to the general consequences of what comes next.

As Sen. Penrose noted, a shocking number of people who opposed the practice of plural marriage within the church themselves had mistresses, making it hypocritical for them to condemn the church.
 
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Ironhold

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I'm reading it. Thank you for providing it - I appreciate that you are at least providing some reasons and background rather than just blasting me or anyone else. From what I see in your rebuttal, most of it is over details that I think miss the point. I did research Ed Decker a tiny bit and it seems that he is criticized by some other Christian evangelists for his publications/ministry being too offensive and/or inaccurate. I also looked at his page - Saints Alive - but it seems to be toned down from what he's accused of.

Might want to check this link, then.

Dr. Douglas E. Cowan of the University of Missouri - Kansas City pretty well tears him apart.
 
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Ironhold

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Housework :rolleyes:

no ladies, I am not being sexist

Actually?

Believe it or not, this actually was a major advantage in Utah.

The more wives that were around, the more that they could share the household duties. This gave the women a rare luxury that few women had back then: leisure time. Many wives filled the time by getting an education (several of the first female medical doctors in the nation were plural Mormon wives) while others got involved in politics. Utah was actually a hotbed for the womens' suffrage movement before the anti-polygamy laws stripped suffrage from the women of the state.
 
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Hammster

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"As for me, I would rather have seated beside me in this chamber a polygamist who doesn't polyg than a monogamist who doesn't monag." - Senator Boies Penrose (R-Penn) in response to the Smoot Hearings.

Plural marriage means that the husband has a legal and moral obligation to provide for and support each wife and the children created by each union.

Serial adultery, however, is simply one person hopping between beds as they see fit, with no thought to the general consequences of what comes next.

As Sen. Penrose noted, a shocking number of people who opposed the practice of plural marriage within the church themselves had mistresses, making it hypocritical for them to condemn the church.
So the difference is the polygamist is an adulterer with a conscience.
 
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fatboys

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Can you explain to us what the Mormon position is on black people?
They are descendants of Cain but are children of our Heavenly Father. There was a policy in place from the time of Brigham Young until 1978 which the church banned them from holding the priesthood in this life. Although they could be baptized and having callings in the church they were not allowed the priesthood. Joseph Smith had ordained several black men from the lineage of Cain. And there were people of other black races which could. It was a lineage ban. Brigham Young ordained a few blacks but one of them turned bad and caused the church harm. And so Brigham Young decided to ban the whole race except those who had already been ordained.
In the early 70's in Africa a man had gotten hold of a pamphlet of the Joseph Smith story. He prayed about it and knew it was true. He sent a letter to the church asking for more information in which he was sent more plus a Book of Mormon. He begin to preach what he learned to others and had about 500 people that wanted to join the church. I believe that this was one of the reasons that helped in prompting President Kimball to ask the Lord about the ban. I could be wrong and there is much more to the reasons why.
I think Brigham Young felt it was the right thing to do because of the racially charged atmosphere of slavery and the politics towards Mormons in general because we wanted slavery to end. They were thinking of ways to survive. This is just my opinion from the research I have done.
One thing is that they would have received the same rewards in heaven if they were obedient to the laws of God. When I was trying to defend the churches position on this it helped to understand that the priesthood was denied to all of Israel except those who were from the tribe of Levi. If the rest of Israel would have kept the laws of they would not be denied the priesthood in the next life either. There are other examples as well
 
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Cactus Jack

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fatboys, you have WHAT proof? You have word of mouth. Other than Pres. Kimball, may the fine man rest in peace, who witnessed this? What actual proof is there other than the word of MAYBE a few dozen men, at most? Likely only...a couple?

But that's ok. I ask for absolute proof, and likewise I should comply as well. So, with thanks to Google, here we go!

1968-1970: The Civil Rights Movement Comes to BYU
October 21, 2009
By Jeff Breinholt

The 1960s was a time of turmoil in the United States. This turmoil extended to American college campuses. It focused on the Free Speech Movement and civil rights in the south, and gradually extended to the U.S. involvement in the war in Southeast Asia. Some American colleges remained unmolested by the times. One was Brigham Young University.

–snip–

The July 15, 1968 edition of Newsweek featured the cover story “The Angry Black Athlete,” which stated:

It is a mess that extends from Niagara to the University of California, from Michigan to the University of Texas at El Paso. Sometimes the racial issue is inflamed by a coach’s get-tough policy. “I could give in to a lot of Negro demands,” says one Southwestern track coach, “and keep my team intact. But someone has to hold the line against these people.”

At El Paso, track coach Wayne Vandenburg threatened to kick six athletes off the team if they joined the boycott of the New York Athletic Club indoor meet in February. The club was charged with discriminatory membership policies. Vandenburg won and the athletes competed. But two months later, after a talk with Harry Edwards, the same athletes refused to enter a meet at Brigham Young University in Utah because of Mormon doctrines about blacks. Vandenburg promptly dropped champion long-jumper Bob Beamon and five others from the squad.
http://mormonmatters.org/2009/10/21/1968-1970-the-civil-rights-movement-comes-to-byu/

In January of 1970 the Black Student Union (BSU) at the University of Washington launched a protest campaign demanding that the UW sever all athletic relations with Brigham Young University (BYU). Later, the BSU also demanded that the University make a statement condemning BYU as a racist institution. The protests were doomed to failure. The University believed that they could not legally sever relations with BYU on the grounds that doing so would infringe on the Mormon Church’s freedom of religion. For the BSU, the statement would have stood as a sign that the University was operating in good faith to end racism. But, the only compromise the administration could offer did not seem like such a gesture.
http://depts.washington.edu/civilr/BSU_BYU.htm

Fired by Conscience:
The Black 14 Incident at the University of Wyoming and Black Protest in the Western Athletic Conference
By Clifford A. Bullock
http://www.uwyo.edu/robertshistory/fired_by_conscience.htm

BYU Football: Remembering the Black 14 Protest
By Jay Drew
The Salt Lake Tribune
Published November 6, 2009 5:22 pm
http://www.sltrib.com/byucougars/ci_13728556

Curse of Cain?
Racism in the Mormon Church
http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/curseofcain_part1.htm

Now, let's look at this from the business point of view. Just imagine how many people and businesses the LDS could sue for lying, defamation of character, slander, libel, and what have you? Boy, they could make a killing! Literally! Except for one small problem. Proof. Ultimately the Blacks and non-whites were denied more than a civil right, but salvation. You're in a ship. It sinks. The blacks and non-white help get survivors to an island to survive, but you then kick the blacks and non-whites off because...they're not white. Figuratively speaking, of course.

Now we can reflect on this as I was instructed when I became an elder. Satan will do and say many things, fool many people, into believing the lies and heresy made about the church, to push people away, and to even push those weak in faith from within "our"/your fold. Which would explain more than just the racism the LDS had. It also would explain the news stories about Joseph Smith and his treasure hunting escapades in NH & NY. Using the very same trick- the Umim & Thummim, to find treasure. And his subsequent convictions. But no, that's all made up nonsense by Lucifer.

Now look at it from a different angle fatboys. Warren Jeffs.
He's really not much different than Joseph Smith, is he?

Amazing what Lucifer will do to disfigure the church and make it look evil to push people away....
 
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ArmenianJohn

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And the Mormons here can't do that for us?

They could but they don't. They provide a lot of half-truth. They are allowed and even taught to "lie for the Lord" by only providing "milk before meat" to non-Mormons.
 
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fatboys

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fatboys, you have WHAT proof? You have word of mouth. Other than Pres. Kimball, may the fine man rest in peace, who witnessed this? What actual proof is there other than the word of MAYBE a few dozen men, at most? Likely only...a couple?

But that's ok. I ask for absolute proof, and likewise I should comply as well. So, with thanks to Google, here we go!


http://mormonmatters.org/2009/10/21/1968-1970-the-civil-rights-movement-comes-to-byu/


http://depts.washington.edu/civilr/BSU_BYU.htm


http://www.uwyo.edu/robertshistory/fired_by_conscience.htm


http://www.sltrib.com/byucougars/ci_13728556


http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/curseofcain_part1.htm

Now, let's look at this from the business point of view. Just imagine how many people and businesses the LDS could sue for lying, defamation of character, slander, libel, and what have you? Boy, they could make a killing! Literally! Except for one small problem. Proof. Ultimately the Blacks and non-whites were denied more than a civil right, but salvation. You're in a ship. It sinks. The blacks and non-white help get survivors to an island to survive, but you then kick the blacks and non-whites off because...they're not white. Figuratively speaking, of course.

Now we can reflect on this as I was instructed when I became an elder. Satan will do and say many things, fool many people, into believing the lies and heresy made about the church, to push people away, and to even push those weak in faith from within "our"/your fold. Which would explain more than just the racism the LDS had. It also would explain the news stories about Joseph Smith and his treasure hunting escapades in NH & NY. Using the very same trick- the Umim & Thummim, to find treasure. And his subsequent convictions. But no, that's all made up nonsense by Lucifer.

Now look at it from a different angle fatboys. Warren Jeffs.
He's really not much different than Joseph Smith, is he?

Amazing what Lucifer will do to disfigure the church and make it look evil to push people away....
I gave you a link which explained it much better than I did. When you said that they were denied salvation that is a total lie. And you sit there and make accusations with nothing to back it up. There were many non whites who had skins that were as black as any person from the lineage of Cain that held the preisthood.
 
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fatboys

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Were Patriarchal Blessings set up as an assurance you aren't of the seed of Cain?
It was given to declare what tribe of Israel you came from. If you did not come from a tribe you were adopted into one since it is through Israel God promise salvation came through.
 
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drstevej

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It was given to declare what tribe of Israel you came from. If you did not come from a tribe you were adopted into one since it is through Israel God promise salvation came through.

Who arranged the adoption? Who has that authority? More Joe-made stuff?
 
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fatboys

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Who arranged the adoption? Who has that authority? More Joe-made stuff?
Well if what we are saying is true and John the Baptist, Peter, James and John who held the priesthood of laid there hands on Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery, then authority to do these things is from God. If it is false then what does it matter to you? Where did you get authority from?
 
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