Are Mormons and JWs Christians?

TheBarrd said:

Wdo you think?

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I think not.

Many others feel that the decision was unfair. They feel that, as long as someone believes in Jesus he or she is a Christian, regardless what other strange doctrines he/she might hold.

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James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Archaeopteryx said:

One group of Christians claims that another is heretical. What's new?

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Okay if we peer-review each other?

Niblo said:

I'm guessing they would have been Druze. Don't know enough of their teachings to say more, but I believe there are elements of Christianity there; and that they are unitarians. Thank you.

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No, not Druze, Muslim. If they were Druze I would have said Druze. I know the difference and so did my parents who are from the Middle East. Where are you from in the Middle East? In any case, this was the case with many Muslims. They prefer not to be called "Christians" but they had a belief that a good Muslim was by default a good Christian - such was their view of Christianity, as though it were a subset of Islam and that Muslims understood Christianity better than non-Muslim Christians themselves. My mother's friends, two sisters, were the daughters of one of Beirut's higher city officials. She would visit them in their big, beautiful house overlooking the Mediterranean, have dinner with them (their mother had died so it was the girls and their father) - they were Muslim. Of course, in Beirut at that time Muslims were very western, the women did not cover up - it was rare to see even a hijab in "The Paris of the Middle East".

ArmenianJohn said:

No, not Druze, Muslim. If they were Druze I would have said Druze. I know the difference and so did my parents who are from the Middle East. Where are you from in the Middle East? In any case, this was the case with many Muslims. They prefer not to be called "Christians" but they had a belief that a good Muslim was by default a good Christian - such was their view of Christianity, as though it were a subset of Islam and that Muslims understood Christianity better than non-Muslim Christians themselves. My mother's friends, two sisters, were the daughters of one of Beirut's higher city officials. She would visit them in their big, beautiful house overlooking the Mediterranean, have dinner with them (their mother had died so it was the girls and their father) - they were Muslim. Of course, in Beirut at that time Muslims were very western, the women did not cover up - it was rare to see even a hijab in "The Paris of the Middle East".

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Glad to hear it. My Muslim family are from Morocco. They do not consider themselves to be Christian. I, on the other hand, am Welsh and a former Christian.

As far as I'm concerned, people are entitled to describe themselves in any way they wish; even if that wish is not representative of the majority of their co-religionists. Live and let live.

Niblo said:

Glad to hear it. My Muslim family are from Morocco. They do not consider themselves to be Christian. I, on the other hand, am Welsh and a former Christian.

As far as I'm concerned, people are entitled to describe themselves in any way they wish; even if that wish is not representative of the majority of their co-religionists. Live and let live.

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From an outsider's perspective, if someone claims to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then they qualify as a 'Christian' in my view, even if their specific theology does not align with the majority of Christianity.

Archaeopteryx said:

From an outsider's perspective, if someone claims to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, then they qualify as a 'Christian' in my view, even if their specific theology does not align with the majority of Christianity.

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Thank you. I imagine some might ask you to define 'Son of God' in this context. I, on the other hand, do not!

I have a BA in Psychology, and because of that I could call myself a Psychologist. However, that doesn't make one. Maybe it's the first step, but that's about it. lol Further, it would do me no good to become offended if someone told me that I wasn't one. I don't understand why people get "hurt feelings" over someone telling them they are or are not something. If you meet the criteria for the title of something, then who cares what someone thinks. If you haven't then meet it, and move on.

Merely because someone calls themselves a Christian does not make them one. Meet the criteria God sets for being a "believer," and you can have confidence that you are one. "I (Jesus) am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man comes to the Father except by Me." John 14:6; Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12; And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Acts 2:21. There are countless others, of course....that mention the need for repentance (if you confess your sin He is faithful and just to forgive you of your sin and to cleanse you from all unrighteousness), the need for works (faith without works is dead), etc. However, Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. He is the only reason that the spiritual separation between a Holy God and sinful man is now closed, and we are in right standing with God.

Of course, "believing" that Jesus exists is not what the Scripture means. Believing means to trust and rely on. It means to make Him Lord of your life.…I John 5:3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith.…" Of course, not the Mosaic Law, but to love God and love His creation. When one is doing that, then everything else will fall into place. If you love someone, you won't steal, lie, cheat, etc., them. If you love God with all your heart, soul, and mind you will be obedient to that which He asks of you.

1. Acknowledge that you are a "sinner," born with a fallen nature, which spiritually separates you from God.
2. Repent of living a life according to your own ways and not God's ~ the God of the Bible.
3. Recognize that there is nothing you can do to 'save' yourself, and that only by a one time offering of Jesus upon the cross (without the shedding of blood there is not remission for sin), we can stand righteous before God because the judgment that was upon us has been paid in full.
4. Make Jesus the Lord of your life.

Then, you can call yourself a Christian...

Kathryn Jensen said:

I have a BA in Psychology, and because of that I could call myself a Psychologist. However, that doesn't make one. Maybe it's the first step, but that's about it. lol Further, it would do me no good to become offended if someone told me that I wasn't one. I don't understand why people get "hurt feelings" over someone telling them they are or are not something. If you meet the criteria for the title of something, then who cares what someone thinks. If you haven't then meet it, and move on.

Merely because someone calls themselves a Christian does not make them one. Meet the criteria God sets for being a "believer," and you can have confidence that you are one. "I (Jesus) am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man comes to the Father except by Me." John 14:6; Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12; And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Acts 2:21. There are countless others, of course....that mention the need for repentance (if you confess your sin He is faithful and just to forgive you of your sin and to cleanse you from all unrighteousness), the need for works (faith without works is dead), etc. However, Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. He is the only reason that the spiritual separation between a Holy God and sinful man is now closed, and we are in right standing with God.

Of course, "believing" that Jesus exists is not what the Scripture means. Believing means to trust and rely on. It means to make Him Lord of your life.…I John 5:3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith.…" Of course, not the Mosaic Law, but to love God and love His creation. When one is doing that, then everything else will fall into place. If you love someone, you won't steal, lie, cheat, etc., them. If you love God with all your heart, soul, and mind you will be obedient to that which He asks of you.

1. Acknowledge that you are a "sinner," born with a fallen nature, which spiritually separates you from God.
2. Repent of living a life according to your own ways and not God's ~ the God of the Bible.
3. Recognize that there is nothing you can do to 'save' yourself, and that only by a one time offering of Jesus upon the cross (without the shedding of blood there is not remission for sin), we can stand righteous before God because the judgment that was upon us has been paid in full.
4. Make Jesus the Lord of your life.

Then, you can call yourself a Christian...

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In regards to your reference to psychology:

IMO, people who need to focus on telling others they are not this or not that and people who need to obtain acceptance from other people about their own faith, likely are not very secure with their faith.

bhsmte said:

In regards to your reference to psychology:

IMO, people who need to focus on telling others they are not this or not that and people who need to obtain acceptance from other people about their own faith, likely are not very secure with their faith.

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What about those who don't focus on it, but "silently believe it"?

And wouldn't every Heinz 57 variety calling each other "catsup" just dilute the sacredness of the sect?

Kathryn Jensen said:

I have a BA in Psychology, and because of that I could call myself a Psychologist. However, that doesn't make one. Maybe it's the first step, but that's about it. lol Further, it would do me no good to become offended if someone told me that I wasn't one. I don't understand why people get "hurt feelings" over someone telling them they are or are not something. If you meet the criteria for the title of something, then who cares what someone thinks. If you haven't then meet it, and move on.

Merely because someone calls themselves a Christian does not make them one. Meet the criteria God sets for being a "believer," and you can have confidence that you are one. "I (Jesus) am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man comes to the Father except by Me." John 14:6; Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12; And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. Acts 2:21. There are countless others, of course....that mention the need for repentance (if you confess your sin He is faithful and just to forgive you of your sin and to cleanse you from all unrighteousness), the need for works (faith without works is dead), etc. However, Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. He is the only reason that the spiritual separation between a Holy God and sinful man is now closed, and we are in right standing with God.

Of course, "believing" that Jesus exists is not what the Scripture means. Believing means to trust and rely on. It means to make Him Lord of your life.…I John 5:3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith.…" Of course, not the Mosaic Law, but to love God and love His creation. When one is doing that, then everything else will fall into place. If you love someone, you won't steal, lie, cheat, etc., them. If you love God with all your heart, soul, and mind you will be obedient to that which He asks of you.

1. Acknowledge that you are a "sinner," born with a fallen nature, which spiritually separates you from God.
2. Repent of living a life according to your own ways and not God's ~ the God of the Bible.
3. Recognize that there is nothing you can do to 'save' yourself, and that only by a one time offering of Jesus upon the cross (without the shedding of blood there is not remission for sin), we can stand righteous before God because the judgment that was upon us has been paid in full.
4. Make Jesus the Lord of your life.

Then, you can call yourself a Christian...

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You can decide to draw the line at your church's door and claim that everyone inside is a Christian and that everyone outside is not. How you identify a 'Christian' internally is up to you. However, for the rest of us, we are confronted by people who do not fit your rigid criteria and who still call themselves 'Christian'. I'm inclined to accept their self-identification, again regardless of whether they satisfy your criteria or not.

Archaeopteryx said:

You can decide to draw the line at your church's door and claim that everyone inside is a Christian and that everyone outside is not. How you identify a 'Christian' internally is up to you. However, for the rest of us, we are confronted by people who do not fit your rigid criteria and who still call themselves 'Christian'. I'm inclined to accept their self-identification, again regardless of whether they satisfy your criteria or not.

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But where is the "outer marker," in your opinion?

Gandhi said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians."

Was Gandhi saying he didn't like Joseph Smith or Charles Russel?

AV1611VET said:

But where is the "outer marker," in your opinion?

Gandhi said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians."

Was Gandhi saying he didn't like Joseph Smith or Charles Russel?

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What do you mean by the "outer marker"?

I don't like either alternative in the poll. A Christian is anyone who accepts Christ as Lord and savior. Both JW and LDS do, though they have unorthodox ideas of the Trinity and Incarnation. Note that following Jesus isn't just admiring him, as many of other religions do.

Archaeopteryx said:

What do you mean by the "outer marker"?

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Where do you drawn the line between a Christian and another sect or denomination?

At Jehovah's Witnesses? Mormons? Bahá'ís? Confusians? Hindus?

AV1611VET said:

Where do you drawn the line between a Christian and another sect or denomination?

At Jehovah's Witnesses? Mormons? Bahá'ís? Confusians? Hindus?

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I think hedrick, in the post above yours, provides a good answer.

Archaeopteryx said:

I think hedrick, in the post above yours, provides a good answer.

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So they want their cake and eat it too?

I'm with Hammster on this one.

They have a different Jesus.

Hammster said:

Actually, they have a different Jesus.

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As far as I know, there's only one.

I'm aware that Paul used that phrase. But he didn't treat the Corinthians who had been misled as non-Christians.