Wryetui

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I like Islam, but that doesn't mean I consider it to be truth. I think it's a man-made religion, but it is a beautiful way of living after all. The mosques are beautiful, the calligraphy, the faith of the muslims is inspiring, and I have always loved the middle-east, it has something that makes my heart fall in love with it, but still, I see no truth in Islam.
 
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Michael

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Sectarian violence is a sad but true reality. However, Christians of various denominations killed each other over the centuries as well. We saw some of that as Yugoslavia broke up, for example.

Hmm. I think most of the religious oriented violence that took place in Yugoslavia was between Christians and Muslims. Ethnic divisions tend to erupt between Christians of course, and there is the example of Northern Ireland where the violence was between religious factions. You're correct that no religion is immune from such stupidity.

I don't recall any conflicts however between Christian sects that went across national borders. ISIL lining up Shias in trenches in Iraq, like the Nazi's perpetrated on the Jews, seems to be taking sectarian violence to it's most pathetically violent expression.

The scary part to me is that if Sunni's and Shia's can't live in peace in the Middle East, what hope is there for them living in peace with any other religious beliefs?
 
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Cearbhall

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What are your views on Islam?
It's a religion, so it was created by humans and becomes whatever people want it to be. As with most religions, I'm fine with what many followers make it out to be, but others go too far.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Double standard in how such items are reported.


Double standard in how such items are discussed as well...

As Sam Harris says, people do a good job critiquing white theocracy, however, fail criticizing bad ideas in Islam out of fear of being labeled a bigot.

...but as it pertains to the OP, can you provide some clarification on exactly which aspects of Islam you want my views on?
 
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Yeah, many Spaniards converted to Islam. True. That is true about the Amerindians in Mexico and all the mestizos produced too. Eh... Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton like many black Democratic leaders are bible preaching Protestants and not priests of Voodoo.

I don't think it should be a surprise that Spaniards would convert to the leading and wealthiest power group. Pretty typical human trait.

Islam offered some benefits in other ways as well. Islam brought a solution to the violence and social problems throughout the Iberian region of that time. That Catholicism was inadequate to handle or address. Kind of like the Nation of Islam today offers a solution to the violence and social pathologies within Black-America in a time in which the Black Church (Protestant) has been incompetent and incapable of adequately addressing and solving.

Islam will offer solutions to America's and Europe's problems as whole as secular people provide utterly incompetent leadership, social pathologies explode, and secular leadership is up for the highest bidder with the best story to tell the masses.

It's presumptuous to dismiss conversions as something done only for materialistic gains and not because they saw Islaam as the truth. This argument of conversion purely for worldly pursuits falls short when we observe that a large number of Muslims stayed true to their faiths even when facing death or expulsion. Many "left" Islaam publicly but were still practicing secretly.

I mentioned conversions in the first place because you brought up how Spaniards didn't support Muslim rule. Clearly many of them did if they converted to the religion. Perhaps Christian kingdoms didn't support Muslim rule, but that's different from saying 'white Spaniards'.

I do agree with Islaam being the cure to societal ills and the concept of justice probably attracted many to the religion in the first place.

But in terms of the "Dark Ages," for one, Western Europe in no way constituted most of planet earth. Secondly, the term itself is propaganda.

Be that as it may, the Muslims were far more sophisticated than much of Europe, despite being the new kids on the block.

The Muslims acquired a lot of their "knowledge" from the Eastern and Oriental Christians. Particularly the Oriental Christians. And a lot of their "knowledge" from the Hindu Indians. That learning they translated into Arabic and then brought to the Christian West.

This is some major downplaying of Muslim contribution to society but I guess it's to be expected. I remember back in high school, history classes would be very Eurocentric: European countries, European culture, and European achievements would get an entire week or more and the Islaamic period would get like...3 paragraphs (or maybe a few pages if they were feeling particularly generous). I only got to learn more about some parts of Islaamic civilization in the secular setting when I took a class dedicated to Middle Eastern history at my university. If this is how our education system treats that region, that culture, and that religion in that time period, it's not surprising to find people minimizing the Muslim contribution to many fields. I want to include a quote that's relevant to what you said, but I don't want to make my post too long. I'll provide it in the next one.

By the way... the "Golden Age" of the USA was arguably right after WWII during the 1950s to the late 1960s. Why would Black-Americans rebel during a "Golden Age" and one of material prosperity and scientific advancements that greatly surpassed the Golden Age of Moorish Spain?

I won't really get into/debate the "golden age" of the US surpassing the Golden Age of Spain.

The US wasn't very just towards blacks. Historically, Muslims treated their subjects much more justly than those who ruled the subjects before/after the Muslims (despite sometimes being massacred by people of the same religion as those subjects).
 
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The Muslims acquired a lot of their "knowledge" from the Eastern and Oriental Christians. Particularly the Oriental Christians. And a lot of their "knowledge" from the Hindu Indians. That learning they translated into Arabic and then brought to the Christian West.

Professor Berggren identifies the problem when he writes that the “treatment of medieval Islam as a civilization deserving of attention only for its role as a channel through which the great works of the Greeks were carried safely to the eager minds of the European Renaissance” results in “selective and tendentious reading of medieval Arabic texts to show how Islamic science prefigured that of modern times.”[12]

The assumption that Greek science was the impetus behind rise of Islamic science has also been recently seriously questioned. The beginnings of Islamic science predated the translation movement. For example, George Saliba points out that it would be impossible to translate Greek scientific texts unless a highly sophisticated scientific vocabulary already existed in Arabic, implying a preexisting robust scientific tradition.[13] Evidence also points to the fact that Islam’s engagement with Greek thought was always a critical one, not a passive and accepting one.[14] This is true even when we look at the so called “neo-platonic” thinkers such as Ibn Sina who was highly critical of Aristotle, openly rejecting many of his ideas.[15]

In fact, this moving away from the Greek tradition, “de-hellinization” within Islam as the sciences become more and more “Islamic” is seen by many as a move against reason[16]. However, here again this is largely based upon the assumption that “Islamic” implies anti-reason, and not on any empirical evidence. The evidence on the contrary suggests a rich tradition of Islamic science developing within the context of a rational Islamic theology[17].


Ghazali, Islamophobia, & the Myth of Islamic Decline
 
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South Bound

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What are your views on Islam?

Inasmuch as it can be addressed non-violently, we should continue to preach the Gospel to them. But when it eventually becomes violent, as is the pagan and barbaric nature of Islam, the only remedy is to respond with vigorous and enthusiastic force to put it down.
 
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Michael

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Inasmuch as it can be addressed non-violently, we should continue to preach the Gospel to them. But when it eventually becomes violent, as is the pagan and barbaric nature of Islam, the only remedy is to respond with vigorous and enthusiastic force to put it down.

IMO more needs to be done to publicly deal with the religious rhetoric, and the outright *blasphemy* of claiming that it's righteous before God for Sunnis to kill Shias or visa versa. Until it stops killing *itself*, extremist Islam poses a physical threat to everyone. Sometimes the pen is mightier than the sword however. I must say that Sam Harris is a pretty level headed thinker, and I agree that Islam, and several concepts embedded in Islam pose a threat to Islam and the rest of the world.
 
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awitch

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What are your views on Islam?

That depends on the interpretation. Obviously the "Let's kill lots of people" crowd is crazy, but I've met a few Muslims and they were quite friendly and pleasant, so cheers to them.
 
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Arthra

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Islam was a Divinely revealed religion and the Qur'an an authentic repository of the Word of God. Baha'is share a love for Prophet Muhammad with Muslims as we share a love of Jesus Christ with Christians. Shoghi Effendi the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith wrote:

"Indeed, the essential pre-requisites of admittance into the Bahá'í fold of Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists, and the followers of other ancient Faiths, as well as of agnostics and even atheists, is the whole-hearted and unqualified acceptance by them all of the Divine origin of both Islam and Christianity, of the prophetic functions of both Muhammad and Jesus Christ, of the legitimacy of the institution of the Imamate, and of the primacy of St. Peter, the Prince of the Apostles."


Shoghi Effendi: The Promised Day is Come, p. 114
 
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Niblo

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It's the love of my life (as well as the best way of life) and the ultimate truth to me.


As-Salāmu ʿAlaykum, Sister,

‘Anyone, male or female, who does good deeds and is a believer, will enter Paradise and will not be wronged by as much as the dip in a date stone. Who could be better in religion than those who direct themselves wholly to Allāh, do good, and follow the religion of Abraham, who was true in faith? Allāh took Abraham as a friend. It is to Allāh that everything in the heavens and earth belongs: Allāh is fully aware of all things.’

(Al-Nisa 4: 124-126).

‘Goodness does not consist in turning your face towards East or West. The truly good are those who believe in Allāh and the Last Day, in the angels, the Scripture, and the prophets; who give away some of their wealth, however much they cherish it, to their relatives, to orphans, the needy, travellers and beggars, and to liberate those in bondage; those who keep up the prayer and pay the prescribed alms; who keep pledges whenever they make them; who are steadfast in misfortune, adversity, and times of danger. These are the ones who are true, and it is they who are aware of Allāh.’

(Al-Baqara: 177)

‘Allāh is enough for us: He is the best protector.’

(Al‘Imran: 173).

There is nothing more I can add.

May Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) bless you, and guide you to Himself.
 
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Niblo

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False religion created by a false prophet. It is better than Paganism and if it never left Arabia then I would have a slightly positive view of Muhammad.

A Pagan who loves her neighbour as herself; who gives of what she has to those in need; who visits the sick or the imprisoned; and who lives in every other way an honourable life is a far better person than any Muslim....or Christian....who doesn't.......and far far closer to the Beloved.
 
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football5680

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A Pagan who loves her neighbour as herself; who gives of what she has to those in need; who visits the sick or the imprisoned; and who lives in every other way an honourable life is a far better person than any Muslim....or Christian....who doesn't.......and far far closer to the Beloved.
I said Paganism, not Pagan. Paganism is a set of beliefs and I was saying Islam (as a set of beliefs) is superior. This doesn't mean any individual is superior and I would agree with what you said.
 
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GoingByzantine

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How cynical some of our atheist friends are, for not all religion is the same. :) I had a Anthropology textbook this past year, and it was very critical of religion. I read its content and the authors made a number of erroneous claims, one was that the Pope like Mormon leaders talks directly to God and basis his doctrine on these personal conversations, and another was that the Roman Catholic Church was the only Christian Church that existed before the Protestant Reformation. It is odd how these experts could do so much research as to write a textbook, but when it came to the religion they criticized they could not even get basic facts straight.

Therefore I implore my atheist brethren to do discerning research, and learn the history of different religions.
 
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Niblo

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I said Paganism, not Pagan. Paganism is a set of beliefs and I was saying Islam (as a set of beliefs) is superior. This doesn't mean any individual is superior and I would agree with what you said.

I know you would. But the Beloved has no time for 'isms'. He much prefers individuals.
 
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