Christians and intoxicating substances and what the Bible says about it.

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SaintJoeNow

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Jesus said not to practice drunkenness, He said nothing about abstinence. So no matter how other scriptures are twisted out of context or how ignorant people are who have never drunk alcohol, the fact remains that drunking alcohol is not a sin. As far as holiness goes, that is based on the blood of Jesus not on outward actions.

Jesus said to be perfect as His Father in heaven is perfect. Do you think God sips alcohol in a perfect way, so when you sip it you are being perfect like Him? Trying to make an allowance for "moderate" indulgence and claiming you are following Jesus in doing it is an insult to Him. They accused Him of being a glutton and a winebibber as an insult and he was neither of those things.
 
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SaintJoeNow

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abstinence is perfect sobriety. The Bible is God's word, Jesus is God, Jesus said in His word to be sober, be holy, be perfect. You can't sip alcohol and be any of these things. That sip of intoxication gives your flesh control over you and you and the indulgence is self-satisfying, for yourself, and God wants us to be holy for Him.

This was not much of an argument among churches until recent decades......TV has ruined most churches and turned many Christians into TV couch potato beer sippers when Jesus said they are supposed to be denying themselves, taking up their cross, and following Him and He said that if they follow Him, He will make them fishers of men. Instead of fishing for men, a lot of Christians get fish-faced sipping suds letting their eyes soak up the world of TV.
 
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Hammster

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Jesus said to be perfect as His Father in heaven is perfect. Do you think God sips alcohol in a perfect way, so when you sip it you are being perfect like Him? Trying to make an allowance for "moderate" indulgence and claiming you are following Jesus in doing it is an insult to Him. They accused Him of being a glutton and a winebibber as an insult and he was neither of those things.
And you must think you can be perfect in the same way God is. That's blasphemous.
 
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Goodbook

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I think people just fooling themselves into thinking alcohol a good thing when theres so much evidence it isnt. It quite concerns me that people would even argue about it and defend it.

But..they can go get drunk and sip drinks at other churches i suppose. I more concerned for their children. Maybe they give their children alcohol and think its ok, its only little sippy cups.
Nobody gonna notice. Then wonder why in teen years they start going crazy and rebellious.
I have seen the carnage...it is not nice and it reeks. The worst is ppl who think they high class getting smashfaced.
 
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Goodbook

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I had to deal with a lot of people that totally deny they have a problem. Oh I only drink occasionally. Its not nice when they do. I wont repeat what they say here for risk of offending ppl. These people are struggling and they are christians.
 
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Hammster

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I think people just fooling themselves into thinking alcohol a good thing when theres so much evidence it isnt. It quite concerns me that people would even argue about it and defend it.

But..they can go get drunk and sip drinks at other churches i suppose. I more concerned for their children. Maybe they give their children alcohol and think its ok, its only little sippy cups.
Nobody gonna notice. Then wonder why in teen years they start going crazy and rebellious.
I have seen the carnage...it is not nice and it reeks. The worst is ppl who think they high class getting smashfaced.
And who is promoting any of this here?
 
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JM

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I think people just fooling themselves into thinking alcohol a good thing when theres so much evidence it isnt. It quite concerns me that people would even argue about it and defend it.

But..they can go get drunk and sip drinks at other churches i suppose. I more concerned for their children. Maybe they give their children alcohol and think its ok, its only little sippy cups.
Nobody gonna notice. Then wonder why in teen years they start going crazy and rebellious.
I have seen the carnage...it is not nice and it reeks. The worst is ppl who think they high class getting smashfaced.


Are cheese burgers a good thing? Yes, in moderation. Is chocolate a good thing? Yes, in moderation.

I've seen the carnage fried foods and high sugar baked goods can havoc on the human body...but...scripture doesn't declare them sinful in and of themselves.

That's what I call Veggie Tale moralism...when you wrongly extrapolate a moral message that cannot be supported in scripture.

JM
 
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tall73

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I think people just fooling themselves into thinking alcohol a good thing when theres so much evidence it isnt. It quite concerns me that people would even argue about it and defend it.

I don't defend drinking. I think it is a poor decision, especially in a day and age when folks drive. But that is much different than answering the question of whether the Bible prohibited all drinking. It did not. You cannot re-write Scripture to suit your views.

I don't drink. I don't want my kids to drink. I think drinking has way more downside than upside. But I cannot lie and say the Bible condemns all drinking. I have to be honest with Scripture.
 
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There are many against drunkenness.
That is true, BUT you can drink and not get DRUNK. I have done it (rarely) I know people that do. I have SEEN people drink and yet not get drunk. There IS a difference. Matter of a fact, they HAD to drink alcoholic wine in Bible times. As did did Christians up until the late 19th or early 20th cenurty/
There are many against drunkenness.
 
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rrguy

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Jesus said to be perfect as His Father in heaven is perfect. Do you think God sips alcohol in a perfect way, so when you sip it you are being perfect like Him? Trying to make an allowance for "moderate" indulgence and claiming you are following Jesus in doing it is an insult to Him. They accused Him of being a glutton and a winebibber as an insult and he was neither of those things.
I don't remember reading or hear of anyone needing drink or food in heaven nor suffering?
 
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rrguy

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I think people just fooling themselves into thinking alcohol a good thing when theres so much evidence it isnt. It quite concerns me that people would even argue about it and defend it.

But..they can go get drunk and sip drinks at other churches i suppose. I more concerned for their children. Maybe they give their children alcohol and think its ok, its only little sippy cups.
Nobody gonna notice. Then wonder why in teen years they start going crazy and rebellious.
I have seen the carnage...it is not nice and it reeks. The worst is ppl who think they high class getting smashfaced.
Oddly red wine has proven health benefits? It is also mentioned several times in the bible giving strong drink? If you wanna believe it's bad then I can't stop you? Surely many have or had issues with it. If you can't have even a weak drink and not trust your decision making then by all means stay away from alcohol? I don't understand people who can't tell difference between a drink & getting drunk? like eating and overeating. Eating gives most people pleasure & causes many to want a nap vs finishing chores?
 
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now faith

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Now faith, There is not one time ever when drinking alcohol brought about problems in relationships, outside of drunkenness. Ever. If someone ever was drinking and was not drunk and they caused problems in their relationship, 100% of the time alcohol was not the problem.

When Scripture talks of immature Christians it isn't talking about 10 year veterans of Christianity who condemn all reasons of drinking alcohol. I would never drink around someone struggling with alcoholism.

Every Christians who condemns me for drinking, when I've never been drunk, is acting self-righteously. People who claim all forms of drinking of alcohol 100% of the time makes some the opposite of sober are clueless to what sober is.

Yes, ill drink in front of some dumb Christian condemning all drinking of alcohol. They deserve to be mocked.

That first statement,you may want to tell the families who fear when Dad comes home drunk.

The rest of the post is nonsense,to say a person is dumb for not drinking?

Walk in someone else's shoes for a while,the broken homes and harm from drunk driving alone is a vile sight in humanity.
tell it to the 12 year old girl who has permanent brain damage from a drunk driver.
 
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now faith

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What that verse proves is exactly what everyone has said from the beginning, if drinking or eating in the presence of those who may stumble, refrain. Drinking is not condemned, drunkenness is, not being of sober mind. If a person has a bad personal experience, what right do they have to condemn another? It's easy to overlook that people who defend what the scriptures say also have very negative experiences to the topic; this does not give you the right to change the Word of God.

If you had respect for others you wouldn't consider them willfully ignorant to the teachings of God, you are not showing love, but prejudice. Skirting around a pointed word does nothing to the truth, it just proves further ignorance.

Romans 14:19: "Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
 
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now faith

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There is no point in this thread.

Defending drinking before those who read this thread is a outlandish and immature thing to do.
drinking has created Hell on earth period.
wasted lives wasted families ,deaths and destruction.
I have tried to be diplomatic but are you both serious???
Booze is a cancer of the mind,it numbs a person's sense of reality,at the first sip there is intoxication.
people leaving their kids to fend for themselves while they sit in a bar?
Then stumbling home and acting like a fool.
if they don't drive the wrong way and make it home.
you can degrade and mock others for not agreeing with drinking,but you cannot deny the conquences.
By defending drinking you make a great example for others so great they will want to grab a bottle and join the party.
 
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Walk in someone else's shoes for a while,the broken homes and harm from drunk driving alone is a vile sight in humanity.
tell it to the 12 year old girl who has permanent brain damage from a drunk driver.

Maybe you shouldn't make assumptions of other persons experiences.

This is getting tiresome, I know very well the destruction 'drunkenness' causes.

I would be happy for drink to be done away with. But I will not change the words of God to suit my own.
 
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brinny

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SaintJoeNow said:
Jesus said to be perfect as His Father in heaven is perfect. Do you think God sips alcohol in a perfect way, so when you sip it you are being perfect like Him? Trying to make an allowance for "moderate" indulgence and claiming you are following Jesus in doing it is an insult to Him. They accused Him of being a glutton and a winebibber as an insult and he was neither of those things.

And you must think you can be perfect in the same way God is. That's blasphemous.

That was not my take on what SaintJoeNow posted.

Thank you kindly.
 
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