The ethics and morality of nudity

DaveW-Ohev said:

Darkhorse - why do you think God killed animals when the text says no such thing?
Was He not in the business of just creating things with a word?

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That's a good question.

God could certainly speak leather into existence without killing any animals, but it wouldn't teach people how to make additional clothes for additional people, or to replace worn-out ones.

It also wouldn't teach the significance of a blood sacrifice, but that could be done other ways.

When I was a kid, I always wondered how Cain was supposed to know that his sacrifice should consist of animals, and that he should have bargained with Abel for a critter or two.

Yes there is that. But it seems to make a hard and fast doctrine out of GOd killing an animal for its skin or making a sacrifice (did God need to make a sacrifice???) is a very weak scriptural approach. It is writing modern understanding into an ancient text which seems very problematic to me.

DaveW-Ohev said:

Yes there is that. But it seems to make a hard and fast doctrine out of GOd killing an animal for its skin or making a sacrifice (did God need to make a sacrifice???) is a very weak scriptural approach. It is writing modern understanding into an ancient text which seems very problematic to me.

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I agree completely! We must not presume too much when Scripture is silent, and reading modern cultural views into ancient texts is unwise.

Public nudity casts a stumbling block for another person. Period!
I have "artistically" lit and photographed scores of women and men naked.
My past creations are in books, museums, and encyclopedias. I am no longer haunted by my past unethical creation of "stumbling blocks" in image searches for my name but this has taken around six years and about a million in legal fees.
Nudity ALWAYS creates a potential for lust whether intended or not.
Naked is ALWAYS beautiful to someone!
It is ALWAYS unethical to present nakedness to anyone but your spouse.
I am still haunted by images of naked humans done by other photo artists from pages my name was once on. I will ask SCOTUS to end this but U.S. Courts are not ethical and will not enforce laws as written after being called senile.

CurtisNeeley said:

Public nudity casts a stumbling block for another person. Period!

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Period? No.

I have participated in public nudity, and there was no stumbling block at all. Just seeing nude people doesn't cause people to behave like animals.

I have "artistically" lit and photographed scores of women and men naked.

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Is this erotic photography, or what?

My past creations are in books, museums, and encyclopedias.

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Congratulations!

Nudity ALWAYS creates a potential for lust whether intended or not.

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No more than clothing does! Are clothed people unsexy? Of course not.

Naked is ALWAYS beautiful to someone!

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This might be true. Blessedly true. We need beauty in the world.

It is ALWAYS unethical to present nakedness to anyone but your spouse.

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Ridiculous.


eudaimonia,

Mark

I see no problem with being naked in public. I have been and have seen others that way. Its no big deal in many ways to me. But I do find afterwards that the world seems to feel like a kinder place after I've been naked with other people.

Enjoyed reading all the comments. Many good points you all made.

Cactus Jack said:

What do you feel is immoral or unethical about nudity, when sex is not involved?

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Nothing, objectively. Culturally, it can signify intentions such as rebellion or disrespect.

CurtisNeeley said:

Public nudity casts a stumbling block for another person. Period!

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But a nice car or house, an expensivve suit or dress, simply being an attractive male or female can cause a stumbling block to others.

I believe nudity isn't moral, not from a christian point of view. Why would you go nude somewhere? Just to atract other people and to be the center of attention, if a man is watching a woman going nude somewhere his mind willbe full of lustful thoughts, and otherwise is the same. Adam and Eve got ashamed on Eden because they saw themselves nude, so nudity is shameful to us since our beginning.

Archivist said:

But a nice car or house, an expensive suit or dress, simply being an attractive male or female can cause a stumbling block to others.

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Yes, I believe in the Christian guide-book the specific stumbling block was eating meat sold at a reduced cost because of sacrificing to idols. Eating meat versus vegan diets was not the issue. Eating meat that had been sacrificed to idols caused other Christians to be uncomfortable or angry because some Christians ate meat sold to offset the costs of sacrificing animals to an idol.
The Christian guide-book did not address the vicarious participation in idol sacrifices this meat consumption, in fact, was but said it was better not to do anything that caused another to stumble.
This does not encourage the wearing of burqas/burkas but does suggest conservative swimwear being preferred to the bikini.

Eudaimonist said:

I have participated in public nudity, and there was no stumbling block at all. Just seeing nude people doesn't cause people to behave like animals.

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That was a reasonably well done reply post. The ethical proposition that nakedness should be reserved for exclusively spousal exchange is not an idea worthy of ridicule but is a moral position that causes no problems if accepted in order to prevent a great deal of immorality.

People behave like animals when seeing nude or clothed persons because all people are, in fact, animals. It is impossible to report your past public nudity will cause no stumbling block because the memory of your naked body might cause lust at some time in the future or might be prideful now?

The naked images I once did are used as examples of low-key and high-key fine art nudes.

CurtisNeeley said:

Public nudity casts a stumbling block for another person. Period!

[...]

Nudity ALWAYS creates a potential for lust whether intended or not.
Naked is ALWAYS beautiful to someone!

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Matt Bomer's beautiful face is always a "stumbling block" for me. Forget potential for lust. I guess he should wear a burqa.

It’s not what you see, it’s what you think when you see what you see and entertain what you are thinking. Simple proof for this is what is though and contemplated when seeing different genders. But as Christians one is to be aware of this and decide what to do with what may come to mind. You are not required to entertain anything when it come to mind. When Satan was tempting Jesus during His 40 days. Jesus heard what Satan said but didn’t entertain it.
As far as what is appropriate in such a case as nudity, when it comes to desires, the place that is acceptable to God, for that is between spouses. As in Apostle Paul’s advice in, if you burn, then you should find someone.

Wryetui said:

Why would you go nude somewhere? Just to atract other people and to be the center of attention

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No, that isn't the reason. While I am reasonably good-looking, I haven't gotten any attention at nude beaches, and did not seek any. I'm not generally an attention-seeking person.

What I discovered to my surprise after going to a nude beach for the first time is the feeling of peace I felt there. It feels like being in a different world, maybe a bit like the Garden of Eden prior to any unlawful fruit consumption. I felt the roles I play in mundane life drop away, which removed some of the mental barriers I feel towards the rest of nature. It even seemed that I could hear the waves crashing against the short better. (This was on the coast of Florida, near NASA.)

I also feel a bit more in touch with humanity, but not humanity as it presents itself, but as it really and timelessly is. There are no pretensions at nude beaches. I have nothing against advertising, but all illusions brought about by advertising vanish. WYSIWYG.

I feel a greater love for humanity, and for the universe itself, at nude beaches. It's a kind of spiritual exercise for me.

I don't blame you for not knowing this -- you'd have to have the experience to understand what I mean.


eudaimonia,

Mark

CurtisNeeley said:

It is ALWAYS unethical to present nakedness to anyone but your spouse.

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Work morning shift in a nursing home some time.

Wryetui said:

I believe nudity isn't moral, not from a christian point of view. Why would you go nude somewhere? Just to atract other people and to be the center of attention, if a man is watching a woman going nude somewhere his mind willbe full of lustful thoughts, and otherwise is the same. Adam and Eve got ashamed on Eden because they saw themselves nude, so nudity is shameful to us since our beginning.

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Going somewhere with the intent of attracting others, to be the centre of attention, is not limited to nudity. Nudity may be an outward reflection of such intentions, but that does not mean all nudity comes about for sinful reasons. Nudity has been an outward reflection of a state, the most obvious way of physically showing perhaps negative states of being, but it does not mean that nudity is immoral.

It is one thing to strut down the street naked in full knowledge that this is something that society as a whole frowns upon. It is another to view nudity as an acceptable way of being and embracing that. One may well be exhibitionism, if you live in a society where naked forms is controversial in public areas then you walk about naked with that knowledge. The other is simply embracing your naked state of being without the associated belief that all nudity is immoral.

Wryetui said:

Why would you go nude somewhere? Just to atract other people and to be the center of attention, if a man is watching a woman going nude somewhere his mind willbe full of lustful thoughts, and otherwise is the same.

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You could say that about any degree of bodily exposure (and some societies do).

Not really. Do you consider, in our society, a T-shirt can be compared to nudity? Of course not, the sexual parts are covered, if I were a girl, I wouldn't like to go nude outside so man can lustfuly look at me and have sexual desires on their head, don't you know that anyone who looks at a woman with lustful desires has already commited adultery in their hearts? A man seeing a woman naked will be lead to lustful thoughts and that can lead to other sins, so why would we encourage sin? We have to take care of our neighbour, and that means we have to keep them from sinning.

Wryetui said:

Not really. Do you consider, in our society, a T-shirt can be compared to nudity?

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It's a spectrum, Wryetui. Where you draw the line between normal exposure and indecent exposure is completely cultural. A couple of centuries ago in Western society, a woman wearing nothing but a t-shirt and shorts would have been considered undressed and basically nude.

Wryetui said:

Of course not, the sexual parts are covered,

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And that's where you draw the line. Some people would say that this isn't enough, and others would say that this is more than enough. There's nothing objectively right about making this the rule.