How many dozens of Christians did creationism drive away this past hour?

SkyWriting · May 22, 2015

The Cadet said:
Similarly, we can look at DNA, and impose a code onto it (and I will freely admit that this is pretty easy to do), but in reality, it's just chemistry.

In Chemistry we learn that all atoms degenerate to the lowest level of energy possible. They are very very lazy things. Even Dr Frankenstein had to use the power of the gods to zap his creation into life.

Smidlee · May 22, 2015

The Cadet said:
Exactly. So the "code" we see there doesn't actually exist until we interpret it into the object.

No the code still exist but not revealed. The movie on a DVD still exist even though completely invisible. The movie is only revealed after it read by a DVD player which is hooked up to a TV. It the same when someone speaking a language I don't understand. The words still exist but hidden from me.

...But the proteins don't do that. They don't "reveal the meaning of the code". They take a sequence of mechanistic objects, and act in a way that is dictated by the laws of physics.

Proteins is the product of the code. Even then proteins must be put in the right location to be functional.

There's no interpretation going on there. It's all just chemistry.

It's the ribosome and tRNA that reads the code. the code is riding on the chemistry. Junk DNA was how evolutionist saw most DNA but they have learn it wasn't junk after all

The "code" is later interpreted onto the object by us. We look at the sequences of base pairs and say, "Huh, this looks like a code" and then we try to decode it, and find that it does different things with different sequences. But how does that indicate design? We, intelligent beings, have looked at a natural sequence of inputs and analogized that to a code. That doesn't make it a code, though, any more than the droplets of water on my windowsill are a code.

If you watch this video you will learn a lot .. unless this man is a liar.

According to his testimony he was able to crack a code in the DNA where other scientist failed. What did he gave the credit to his success ? Biology? no. Chemistry? Nope . (the other scientist knew that field) He believe it was his past experience in cracking man-made codes. In his opinion the junk-DNA/ selfish gene idea has set science back 30 years. That was evolution teaching not YEC. Maybe YEC isn't the "threat to science" as some wants to believe.

I don't know if he an evolutionist (I hope he is so God gets the credit) but he used "creationist" way of thinking to crack a genetic code. According to some evolutionist he should have failed.

Blue Wren · May 22, 2015

The Cadet said:
A literal Adam and Eve, for example. A literal Noah's Flood.

I actually had an interesting encouter with some Jehovah's Witnesses recently. They seemed nice enough, and they gave me some of their literature to peruse. You know where they instantly lost me? Evolution. Because their little booklet on origins is so full of lies and misinformation that it's impossible to take them seriously. And then I'm supposed to take anything they have to say on faith? That's not gonna happen. When people are taught things which are simply untrue, and it's bundled up with a lot of other teachings that cannot be demonstrated to be true, then sometimes something's gonna shake that bundle.

Okay, first off, even assuming that DNA is a "code" (and that we're not just imposing the concept of a code onto a natural substance), that's begging the question. By all evidence we have, DNA is a code that does not come from an intelligent agent. You can't make the claim that it isn't and then back it up by claiming that we have no codes that don't come from intelligent agents.

But the assumption that DNA is a "code" in the sense you mean it is a classic creationist trope that simply doesn't apply. If I look at the water dripping onto my windowsill right now, I could impose a code onto it, a code dependent on how the water drips and how long it is between drips. Does that mean that the dripping water is a "code" that required a designer? No. We looked at a simple natural manifestation of something and implied that it was a code. Similarly, we can look at DNA, and impose a code onto it (and I will freely admit that this is pretty easy to do), but in reality, it's just chemistry.

This. That's what's so repelling about creationism. I was irreligious for many years, as my culture is far more secular than in the States. Many of us are baptised as infants, but mainly for tradition. If the Christians who reached out to me, had been creationists who told me some of what creationists here have written, I would never have trusted them enough, to let them show me Christ. If someone started telling me that all I needed, to accept that a global flood had happened, dinosaurs were on the ark, eating forbidden fruit caused the world to break, was faith, that dishonesty, would have kept me from believing a word they had to say about God. It perverts what faith is. I couldn't haven't believed in God, by faith, if faith had been so manipulated.

The Cadet · May 22, 2015

Smidlee said:
No the code still exist but not revealed. The movie on a DVD still exist even though completely invisible. The movie is only revealed after it read by a DVD player which is hooked up to a TV. It the same when someone speaking a language I don't understand. The words still exist but hidden from me.

Yeah, I have no idea where you're going with this or what this is supposed to demonstrate.

Proteins is the product of the code. Even then proteins must be put in the right location to be functional. It's the ribosome and tRNA that reads the code. the code is riding on the chemistry. Junk DNA was how evolutionist saw most DNA but they have learn it wasn't junk after all

"Wasn't junk after all"? "Junk DNA" is not a widely used term in the scientific literature. Much of our genome is made up of sections of DNA that simply do not code for proteins. This doesn't mean it's worthless, it doesn't mean that it does nothing, and nobody has been implying that that was the case since at least the 90s. The science has moved on, not thanks to creationists, but thanks to actual scientists exploring what genetics had to say. People like your source here:

If you watch this video you will learn a lot .. unless this man is a liar.

I'm quite sure that if I watched an hour-long talk I'd learn quite a lot. Would you care to sum up some of the more salient points, or maybe offer a timestamp to certain segments that are particularly interesting? Remember, you're trying to prove that DNA could not come about by natural means. I'd like to request that you sort of bring it in, and, yanno, make your case. Calling it a "code" does nothing to help your case, because if you define a code as something made by intelligence, DNA is simply not a code and you're just begging the question.

I don't know if he an evolutionist (I hope he is so God gets the credit) but he used "creationist" way of thinking to crack a genetic code.

Funny story.

http://evolution.haifa.ac.il/index.php/people/faculty-a-researchers/198-edward-n-trifonov-ph-d

Research Interests

Deciphering of the codes carried by sequences.

Sequence determinants of chromatin structure

Modular structure of proteins

Networks in protein sequence space

Early molecular evolution and origin of life

So Trifonov not only believes in evolution, but much of his research is actually to do with the origins of life. For some reason, he seems to disagree with you. Kind of odd that you use him as a source, really.

Smidlee · May 22, 2015

The Cadet said:
Funny story.

http://evolution.haifa.ac.il/index.php/people/faculty-a-researchers/198-edward-n-trifonov-ph-d

So Trifonov not only believes in evolution, but much of his research is actually to do with the origins of life. For some reason, he seems to disagree with you. Kind of odd that you use him as a source, really.

Thanks as this strengthen my case the best evidence against evolution come from evolutionist themselves. So he isn't bias toward creationism.
I don't know Richard Dawkins heart but i wonder sometimes if he started his crusade against God because his science views are in question. (the selfish gene)

TheBarrd · May 22, 2015

Okay...I just got here, so maybe I'm missing something.
I just want to point out that it is possible to believe in the Christian God and still embrace science.
There really is no conflict at all between God and science...after all, God invented science in the first place. Without God, there would be no science.
We need not fear science, or fight it...we can be confident that science can never discover anything that God didn't put there in the first place.

AV1611VET · May 22, 2015

TheBarrd said:
There really is no conflict at all between God and science...after all, God invented science in the first place.

I agree.

I have a set of standards I use to reconcile science with the Bible:

My Boolean Standards:

If science says it, and the Bible agrees, go with it.
If science says it, and the Bible disagrees, don't go with it.

Blue Wren · May 22, 2015

TheBarrd said:
Okay...I just got here, so maybe I'm missing something.
I just want to point out that it is possible to believe in the Christian God and still embrace science.
There really is no conflict at all between God and science...after all, God invented science in the first place. Without God, there would be no science.
We need not fear science, or fight it...we can be confident that science can never discover anything that God didn't put there in the first place.

It's easily possible, for a Christian to still embrace science, yes. That's what many Christians have said, so many times. The problem, is that other Christians will then pick and choose, which parts of science, should be embraced, instead of realising all science is by God. When I explained, that I accept the science for evolution, a very old earth,
no flood, I was told that my faith was rubbish, I call Jesus a liar, I'm not a real Christian, I don't believe in God, I am jeopardising my soul, by other Christians, here in the Baptist section. There was so much hostility. Half the thread was deleted by moderators, because it became so hostile. This only happened, on an internet forum, so not of much consequence.
It happened, when I was already a Christian. I think if I was told all that that in person, by members of my church, that would have been so much harder. If I had read all that, before I became a Christian, I don't know if I would have become one.

AV1611VET · May 22, 2015

Blue Wren said:
I was told that my faith was rubbish,

Wait until you've been here nine years.

Unbelievers (and believers alike) have done the same with me -- and more.

I've been called everything but what's in my profile, and some even make up stuff I didn't say: like saying I said clams fly.

I've also had my life threatened four times, and on one occasion, I had to appeal to administration to have two pictures removed from my Visitor Messages that a brother-in-Christ put there -- back-to-back.

I even have my very own stalker -- straight out of the Muppet Show.

AV1611VET · May 22, 2015

bhsmte said:
Good for you.

And also good, real scientists don't follow this philosophy.

Do real scientists do their homework before saying something off-the-wall: like asking me why I use a computer, in view of my user title?

TheBarrd · May 22, 2015

I don't understand.
Why so much hostility?
Especially from people who are commanded to love one another???

Blue Wren · May 22, 2015

AV1611VET said:
Wait until you've been here nine years.

Unbelievers (and believers alike) have done the same with me -- and more.

I've been called everything but what's in my profile, and some even make up stuff I didn't say: like saying I said clams fly.

I've also had my life threatened four times, and on one occasion, I had to appeal to administration to have two pictures removed from my Visitor Messages that a brother-in-Christ put there -- back-to-back.

I even have my very own stalker -- straight out of the Muppet Show.

I won't be on here for nine years, lol.

You seem to enjoy pestering people, so I think comments to you, they aren't the same as those told with hostility, to sincere Christians not trying to cause offence/ annoyance. You did write, about Angel DNA, in this thread, yes?

AV1611VET · May 22, 2015

Blue Wren said:
I won't be on here for nine years, lol.

Meh ... you never know!

You seem to enjoy pestering people,

I'll admit I fight fire with fire at times; but for the most part, I'm a big teddy bear!

so I think comments to you, they aren't the same as those told with hostility, to sincere Christians not trying to cause offence/ annoyance.

I didn't quite get this.

If you're saying that some Christians here don't hassle me on purpose, I have to respectfully disagree.

You did write, about Angel DNA, in this thread, yes?

Yes.

I said I didn't believe angels have DNA.

And for the record, I chimed in here talking about myself to try and cheer you up. (You're welcome.)

What's with the questions and remarks?

TheBarrd · May 22, 2015

Blue Wren said:
I won't be on here for nine years, lol.

You seem to enjoy pestering people, so I think comments to you, they aren't the same as those told with hostility, to sincere Christians not trying to cause offence/ annoyance. You did write, about Angel DNA, in this thread, yes?

AV1611VET said:
Don't confuse love with pacifism.

AV1611VET said:
Wait until you've been here nine years.

Unbelievers (and believers alike) have done the same with me -- and more.

I've been called everything but what's in my profile, and some even make up stuff I didn't say: like saying I said clams fly.

I've also had my life threatened four times, and on one occasion, I had to appeal to administration to have two pictures removed from my Visitor Messages that a brother-in-Christ put there -- back-to-back.

I even have my very own stalker -- straight out of the Muppet Show.

You seem to be a very popular fellow around here.
And your "science can take a hike"...yeah, I noticed that, too.
Death threats...that sounds serious.
And a stalker...out of the Muppet Show?

And yet you say you've been here for nine years...
That's a pretty good chunk of time.

Do you think you've accomplished anything in that amount of time?

Blue Wren · May 22, 2015

AV1611VET said:
Meh ... you never know!

I'll admit I fight fire with fire at times; but for the most part, I'm a big teddy bear!

I don't think anyone sees you as a mean or malicious person.

I didn't quite get this.

If you're saying that some Christians here don't hassle me on purpose, I have to respectfully disagree.

I think if you go around poking people, even if it's playful, people will become annoyed. You've been here for 9 yrs, as you say. I think people hassle you, but probably in response to your behaviour, built up over time. It's not the same, as when a Christian is very new, is told by a Christian they've never interacted with, that their faith is rubbish because of disagreements over scripture.

Yes.

I said I didn't believe angels have DNA.

And for the record, I chimed in here talking about myself to try and cheer you up. (You're welcome.)

Lol. I'm confused. I'm not so much in need of cheering, but thank-you? I am bored & restless, waiting for my lost luggage to arrive. Not unhappy. I sometimes can't tell when you are being serious or joking?

What's with the questions and remarks?

Do you mean my writing style? It's just the way I write in casual writing. I am trying to stop writing sentences, as questions, when I write in English. It's a writing habit that is hard to break. I am also trying to stop using so many commas. People on here have tried to be helpful about them, lol. I try to go back through and remove commas that aren't needed.

AV1611VET · May 22, 2015

TheBarrd said:
Do you think you've accomplished anything in that amount of time?

Others could best answer that.

I like to think I have.

The Bible says Its words won't come back void.

You can ask around if you'd like.

Start with Split Rock, who has admitted he has learned a lot from us Christians.

AV1611VET · May 22, 2015

TheBarrd said:
New Jersey?
Are you a Mormon, by any chance?

Independent Fundamental Baptist -- like my profile says.

SkyWriting · May 22, 2015

Subduction Zone said:
In fact is chemicals in your body did not go both up and down in their their excitation level life itself would be impossible. Gross over simplifications are almost always wrong.

Life is pretty much impossible. I challenge you to find anything rarer in the Cosmos.
Work in a lab and try to create some really, really simple life forms.
Or examine every square inch of the earth and find some in development.

AV1611VET · May 22, 2015

crjmurray said:
Well you did say clams flew to the top of mt Everest.

I saw a guy hit a baseball once, and it flew clear out of the park.

MoreCoffee · May 22, 2015

AV1611VET said:
Independent Fundamental Baptist -- like my profile says.

Hey, are you in that church that Pastor Anderson leads? "The Faithful Word Baptist Church"? He says it is an independent Baptist church but I am not sure if he says it is also fundamental or not.

How many dozens of Christians did creationism drive away this past hour?

How many Christians did creationism drive away in the past hour?

Hundreds (over ~60% of cause)

~180 (~50% of cause)

~100 (~25% of cause)*

40 or less (<10% of cause)

Other

The Librarian

Veteran

Well-Known Member

SO COOL

Veteran

Teller of tales, writer of poems, singer of songs

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Well-Known Member

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Teller of tales, writer of poems, singer of songs

Well-Known Member

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Teller of tales, writer of poems, singer of songs

Well-Known Member

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

The Librarian

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

Repentance works.

Similar threads