You are mistaken. Being a blessed part of Israel was based on being part of the Seed of Abraham, either by descent through the line of Jacob, or through conversion/adoption, such as the mixed multitude. Many times Israel was unfaithful to Hashem, falling back into Idolatry, and yet God was faithful still to Israel.
Was David forgiven, was Abraham and his wife forgiven, ..... so many example of the Grace of God is revealed in so many instances recorded in the Word of God, I am amazed that people do not see God's love and forgiveness shining through.
No, it is you who are mistaken. Abrahams faith was accounted unto him as righteousness. See Hebrews 11 for a list of many old saints who had faith and it was accounted as righteousness. Because the gentile is grafted into the vine, we are the seed of Abraham. Galations 3:29 says, "If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Israel may have been unfaithful but God has shown them grace by not writing them off....His call on them is without repentance and He's got plans still for them (Romans 11:1-10). It is because of Israels unfaithfullness that the gentile has been grafted in and that solely to make Israel jealous. So while some of Israel may have rejected God there was/is a remnant that remained faithful and God showed His grace to them because of their faith. Torah has always offered grace through faith. Some saw it and understood, and some, because of their rebellion, didn't.
Acts 17:11 Bible Study: Faith
While it may be true that there is a difference between belief and faith, Abraham moved in both. He believed AND he had faith AND it was accounted unto him as righteousness.
You know I just don't know what to say to you. You are denying something that is the very basics of the Old Testament -- the People of Israel being a People. I hate saying this because usually this phrase is so abused, but in your case it is true: you simply need to go back and read the Old Testament, all of it.
Of course, Viz. No doubt about it. But that's not the question. The question was what made them Israel. Were they Jews simply because they were forgiven by God? Or had God set them aside as a people descended of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob? What about Ninevah? Ninevah was forgiven but did not become Israel. What are we to do with that?
What are you talking about I'm denying the People of Israel being a people? Have we changed subjects and I've not been told?
Yes, part of being a People is that others can be adopted in. This is the process of conversion. It's like when Ruth says, "Your people shall be my people." It's more really than being "saved by grace." It's a change of ethnicity. I usually remind people of when Dances with Wolves becomes a Lakota -- most people are really familiar with that story and understand the depth of transformation. However, the easiest way to be a Lakota is to be born one, and the easiest way to be an Israelite is to be born one.
You did not answer my question regarding your statement to me that I'm "denying the people of Israel being a people". I initially said, "it's always been about grace and doing what God wants" and you told me I was mistaken. Now, you're saying that I'm "denying the people of Israel being a people"? What the heck are you talking about? I never said anything about Israelites not being Isrealites and I never saw Dances with Wolves. What do you think of that Galations scripture? Do you think Paul is denying the people of Israel being a people? We seem to be going in circles, I say one thing and you respond with something totally unrelated.
Are you saying that the church has replaced Israel?
I'm obviously not an expert but maybe it's a spiritual breaking and grafting, not something that can be seen. Just a thought.
I think we do need to do what they do. Some of us are learning at slower paces than others.
It's a good artical. You do realize these are messianic rabbis, right?
What does the fact they are Messianic have to do with the price of tea in China? I use to attend a Messianic Synagogue with a Messianic Jewish Rabbi, who was raised Jewish and came to know Yeshua. I would still be attending if I had not moved and if there was one near me.
Sometimes people are interested in knowing the Jewish position, and can get confused, but it sounds like it's all good.
I agree with Rabbi Eleazar's conclusions on the tree and branches. You must put off all your old roots, you can't do that just by believing in someone. What happened from this teaching is that just like what happened to King Solomon. He took all the heathen wives and to please them built temples to their gods instead of having them convert to his G-d. and it went downhill from there.
Actually the Jewish position was given. I found the article quite interesting, especially going back to the garden and the Tamudic view of that. Although I think he got a couple things out of line such as the timeing. I think it was given up to Noah. And the seventy nations were what resulted at babel. This was a bit before Abraham, the dividing up.
