Christian masculinity

Neogaia777

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Be my guest, neogaia!

I'll try to remember to give guys a break. I just tend not to respond well when being patronised. ;)
I didn't mean to be patronizing, if I was, I was honestly unaware of it, and I apologize if I was or seemed to come across that way...

God Bless!
 
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LovebirdsFlying

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My husband is a man. I mean a real man. Cooking, cat-loving and all. What's masculine about him is that he is the leader of this household (which also includes my adult daughter and adult nephew) without being a tyrant. He is decisive. He has had 50+ years to know what he wants out of life, and he goes after it. He leads by example, showing me the way, not only me but the younger members of my family, as we are all sick of the dysfunctional way of life we all grew up in. We didn't know the way out of it. We didn't know there *was* a way out of it. But there is, and my husband is leading us through it. Me, my daughter, my nephew, and the daughter of the man my daughter almost married--who chose to ally herself with our family rather than be under her father's influence, after he lost his parental rights. My husband is setting an example for all of us. Down the road, when he and I are gone, the young ones he is teaching now will be OK if they follow the trail he's blazing.

Now, there is also some negative stereotype involved. My husband is hard to read. I don't know what he's thinking or feeling sometimes, because he doesn't tell me. Then he expects me to know? I suppose he assumed it would be obvious, but his signals are anything but obvious. He doesn't even speak the language of emotion. I notice that I communicate best with my husband when I am reporting facts like a newscaster. That's when he listens best. Show even the slightest sign of feelings, and he'll clamp down his shell like the world's biggest turtle. Ask him how he felt when this or that happened, and the only answer he can give is what he *did* when this or that happened. He honestly thinks he's answering you, but emotions are a foreign concept to him. Is that healthfully masculine? I don't think so, and neither does any therapist I've ever been to see. Being a man doesn't mean you have to be a robot.
 
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Yennora

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Many people have answered and I have not read them, so forgive me if I am repeating what someone else has already said.

The perfect example of masculinity is Jesus Christ. He was approachable, he cared about the people he met, he spoke the truth, he spoke with wisdom and discretion, he controlled his anger and released it as a response not a reaction (it took time for him to make the whip before overthrowing the money changers), he called a spade a spade at the right time (the pharisees were called snakes and vipers after they plotted his assassination). He cried with the hurting and he made the ultimate sacrifice of laying down his life to save others.

I still can't see how those qualities are tied to masculanity? Why not call it godliness? hence both men and women can live according to that godliness, and that's the case, if your definition of masculanity was the truth, we would only see those actions out of men, which is NOT the case.

I also want to express my opinion over this thread, i think God's flock are exhausted already, it is clear that we are by the ends of our spiritual war... why do we incline to what won't help in our salvation? Specially that such topics can be truly exhaustive!
 
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AlexDTX

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I still can't see how those qualities are tied to masculanity? Why not call it godliness? hence both men and women can live according to that godliness, and that's the case, if your definition of masculanity was the truth, we would only see those actions out of men, which is NOT the case.

I also want to express my opinion over this thread, i think God's flock are exhausted already, it is clear that we are by the ends of our spiritual war... why do we incline to what won't help in our salvation? Specially that such topics can be truly exhaustive!

You make a good point. My reason for using Jesus as the example is because he is the second Adam in the perfect image of God who completely identifies himself in the masculine. Perhaps the question being asked is more about what makes a woman feminine? If God is definition of masculinity, then how does God define femininity?
 
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Sheep4Christ

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Hi. I'm going to specifically speak on husbands and wives by saying this okay so here goes. If husbands submit to their heads (Jesus) then it'll be easier for wives to submit to their husbands. Other than that I think it's a shame for a man to let his wife completely rule him or henpeck him to death.Women are beautiful and God made them that way.Men are supposed to cherish their wives but it's hard to cherish a wife who is being disrespectful and a nag.Marriage is a partnership. Scripture tells us that when a man finds a wife it is a good thing. I think that men allow themselves to be emasculated. That's just my opinion. Some may disagree. And what I've said probably isn't even on topic.
 
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Monk Brendan

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I grew up with a dad that believed crying or showing too much emotion was considered weak and girly.
I beg to differ. It can be a trait that both women and men can have.

I had such a father as well. But if you look in the Scriptures, you can find examples of Christ showing those same "girly" attributes. "Jesus wept." (John 11:35 KJV) is my favorite. Another is Matt 23:37 (KJV)“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!”

Taking on the attributes of a female (hen) to describe how badly He wants people to come to Him.
 
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SnowyMacie

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Since others have shared their experience, I'll share mine. In my family growing up, there really wasn't gender roles in my family, everyone did their part. Both of my parents worked full-time, my mom was a nurse, my dad an engineer. At home, we all helped cook, clean, do yard work, construction projects, etc, and it was similar with my grandparents as well. There really wasn't a lot of difference between what my mom did and my dad did, even their interests are pretty similar. They do have distinct personalities, but I see it more as being different people than being a man versus a woman, especially since my own personality that I inherited is a pretty good mix of theirs. I never really and still don't see my dad as the head of the house, and I don't think he sees himself as that either, him and my mother are equals.

I see the same thing in my grandparents. My grandparents are two equals, my grandmother is just as much the matriarch of the family as my grandfather is the patriarch. As my grandfather's neuropathy has slowly progressed, in many ways she really stepped up and has taken the lead in areas where she wasn't before his disease.
 
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LovebirdsFlying

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Which traits do you all believe is feminine but okay for men to Have?

I grew up with a dad that believed crying or showing too much emotion was considered weak and girly.
I beg to differ. It can be a trait that both women and men can have.

King David, slayer of Goliath, a lion, a bear, and countless military enemies, was one of the most prolific criers in the Bible.
 
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Catherineanne

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I think when people exclude the feminine from being an aspect of God they're also projecting; in this case, projecting binary and limited human conceptions onto God.

It's not political correctness to recognise that excluding the genuinely feminine from being part of God leaves women in a very ambiguous relationship, at best, to the holy (as well as saying that somehow the feminine images of God which Scripture gives us are somehow less true or definitive than the masculine images, which again, puts us on fairly theologically shaky ground).

Arguing for the feminine in God is off topic to this thread, but I will just point out that what this side issue says to me is that a healthy masculinity can't be constructed in defining itself in opposition to or over against something else. It has to stand on its own.

Given that there are no identifiable separate 'masculine' and 'feminine' qualities it follows that we cannot separate the aspects of God's personality into masculine and feminine either.
 
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Tallguy88

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You have changed the question. I did not ask what did St Joseph do that St Mary didn't. I asked what qualities did St Joseph have that St Mary did not have.

I am still waiting to learn what this marvellous 'masculine' qualities are.
Qualities is more subjective and difficult to determine, given Joseph isn't expounded upon much in the Bible. But we can extrapolate some of it by what he did, such as being a working man, a good adoptive father, and a spiritual leader of the family.

And if you view the OP in terms of Joseph vs Mary, you've missed the point. It's about the good qualities of Joseph that men should follow, it has nothing to do with Mary's qualities or whether she shares them with Joseph. They are BOTH good role models. It's just that one is the subject here and the other is not.
 
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Tallguy88

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Good grief.

Leadership is not an exclusively male quality; once again it is an adult quality. Both men and women can be leaders, and both men and women can be followers of other leaders.

Similarly, submission is not just for women; we all submit to Christ, therefore submission to the right authority is also an adult quality, for both men and women.

There is no such thing as a 'masculine' quality. There is only adult and non adult. The problem comes when people try to impose the non adult function onto perfectly intelligent, mature, capable adult women.

Women are not children.
This is not an adversarial thread. It's not about men being better than women. I have been specifically telling people trying to make it about that to stop.
 
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This is not an adversarial thread. It's not about men being better than women. I have been specifically telling people trying to make it about that to stop.
No you have only been saying that to those trying to defend it and allowing those who propagate it to go on.
 
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jal11180

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I am convinced that not only is feminism wrong, but, weirdly enough, so is masculinism and that the people that justify it also justify women not being able to do things like having jobs outside of the home, getting equal pay at a job, being on the same sports teams as men, being in the military alongside men, speaking in churches, or even having any kind of leadership or teaching position within the church, and, as such, masculinism is also likewise against the Holy Scriptures. Furthermore, I am convinced that not only is feminism sexist, immature, hypocritical, narcissistic, bigoted, and elitist in its nature, form, and function, but that it is also the penultimate result of being a female homosexual/heterophobe, that is someone who is a lesbian, and masculinism is all of those things except that its penultimate form is for someone who is a male homosexual/heterophobe, that is, someone who is gay. The reality is that it is YAHWEH EL ELOHIM, and not modern day Pharisees, that gets to say what men and women are to do in their lives and YAHWEH EL ELOHIM has also raised up female leaders to do what is right in the Holy Scriptures as well, most notably, the cases of Jael, Queen Esther, and Deborah. Furthermore, as one Matthew Henry once said, “The woman was made of a rib out of the side of Adam; not made out of his head to rule over him, nor out of his feet to be trampled upon by him, but out of his side to be equal with him, under his arm to be protected, and near his heart to be beloved.” This is how YAHWEH EL ELOHIM meant for men and women to be with one another and any deviance from that results in not only a dysfunctional relationship with each other, but also within society and with each gender. The bottom line is that if YAHWEH EL ELOHIM calls someone to lead over people, REGARDLESS of the gender of the potential leader AND the people that they are to lead over, then any human that interferes within that task, short of being told to interfere in that task by YAHWEH EL ELOHIM Himself, is committing a series of severe crimes against YAHWEH EL ELOHIM Himself, His Word, and His Kingdom, period, full stop.
 
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roamer_1

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To be masculine, we men need to be the dominant leaders in our spheres of influence. This includes such places as the church and the home. This doesn't mean we are to be bullies or bosses, but rather authoritative servant-leaders. Our women are feminine as they honour Christ by being submissive helpers for us.

There is a point to be made in this - Men were given the authority in the church and the home, and women told to submit. On the surface, that looks bad, but what happens when women are allowed to usurp that authority? As a rule, the men bow out. Men avoid responsibility any way they can, while women shoulder it without a second thought... Perhaps women being left out is precisely so that men cannot avoid it.
 
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There is a point to be made in this - Men were given the authority in the church and the home, and women told to submit. On the surface, that looks bad, but what happens when women are allowed to usurp that authority? As a rule, the men bow out. Men avoid responsibility any way they can, while women shoulder it without a second thought... Perhaps women being left out is precisely so that men cannot avoid it.
And yet I see it as men usurping God's ultimate authority when not being equally submissive. Anything that is said about women in the bible, when taken to the spiritual of Christ and the church, is about the church collectively in regards to Christ as the head. Paul does not differentiate, the earliest church has an entirely different context of men/women leaders, and the authority belongs entirely to God and the church needs to be silent before it. The church has no voice, only God does.
Again it's placing the cart before the horse to argue otherwise.
 
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