We are all called to become Saints

Dorothea

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Gxg (G²);62646325 said:
Reading the Word and praying the Jesus Prayer/asking for God's Mercy daily. Fasting helps also - but I'm having to learn how to disconnect a lot from the world via actually studying more so the lives of other saints in Church history/how they handled the world in their times....as opposed to trying to drive without realizing I could be helped by others who went through it.

I'm having to guard my heart a lot lately against cynicism - as well as depression. Considering things like Ecclesiastes and the experiences of Solomon who literally had the entire world but found wisdom in God when it came to learning on how to not forget the ultimate end of life apart from God....that helps a lot when you begin to judge yourself based on where you're at in life and how much you do or don't have - or forgetting all that one has in Christ and therefore not being thankful for what the Lord has given to escape the world.
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I agree with you on the importance of reading the lives of the Saints. This had made a tremendous impact in my spiritual life and walk in Orthodoxy. They give us inspiration and encouragement, and their very examples show us that we too can become holy.
 
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Dorothea

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consecrate every moment to God, forgive and love everyone around you, no matter what situation, and repent.

:thumbsup:

And those are not really easy actions to do. It takes much prayer and effort, through God's help.
 
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Dorothea

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"Some people living carelessly in the world have asked me: 'We have wives and are beset with social cares, and how can we lead the solitary life?' I replied to them: 'Do all the good you can; do not speak evil of anyone; do not steal from anyone; do not be arrogant towards anyone; do not hate anyone; do not be absent from the divine services; be compassionate to the needy; do not offend anyone; do not wreck another man's domestic happiness, and be content with what your own wives can give you. If you behave in this way, you will not be far from the Kingdom of Heaven.'" -- Saint John Climacus

And I would just add: pray without ceasing, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, the sinner", and do it with attentiveness in order to curb the habitual meanderings of our own corrupt thoughts and desires.
I've heard that quote before, but I'd nearly forgotten til you mentioned it again. Thank you!

Yes, getting in the habit of talking with God and having Him on our minds all the time (through prayer... my priest said if you are thinking of God, you are praying...I guess in a way).

So, for me, I stay away from some things that are a distraction from this, but not all things. I was reading in The Return book about repentance and confession that we have to watch what we watch on tv, entertainment, etc. So, I try to do that as well. I'm still somewhat concerned about what my ears take in in the music I listen to. Is this something that we should consider or am I being a fundamentalist zealot?
 
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rusmeister

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"Some people living carelessly in the world have asked me: 'We have wives and are beset with social cares, and how can we lead the solitary life?' I replied to them: 'Do all the good you can; do not speak evil of anyone; do not steal from anyone; do not be arrogant towards anyone; do not hate anyone; do not be absent from the divine services; be compassionate to the needy; do not offend anyone; do not wreck another man's domestic happiness, and be content with what your own wives can give you. If you behave in this way, you will not be far from the Kingdom of Heaven.'" -- Saint John Climacus

And I would just add: pray without ceasing, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, the sinner", and do it with attentiveness in order to curb the habitual meanderings of our own corrupt thoughts and desires.

That quote keeps me going.
 
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rusmeister

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I've heard that quote before, but I'd nearly forgotten til you mentioned it again. Thank you!

Yes, getting in the habit of talking with God and having Him on our minds all the time (through prayer... my priest said if you are thinking of God, you are praying...I guess in a way).

So, for me, I stay away from some things that are a distraction from this, but not all things. I was reading in The Return book about repentance and confession that we have to watch what we watch on tv, entertainment, etc. So, I try to do that as well. I'm still somewhat concerned about what my ears take in in the music I listen to. Is this something that we should consider or am I being a fundamentalist zealot?
Absolutely not. The Christian who thinks that we don't need to control what we take into our souls is deluded. I don't have a snappy quote from the Fathers, but "Garbage in, garbage out" is an obvious principle. Watching films glorifying violence or shows wickedly parodying family life is a far cry from descending into a den of sinners to minister to them somehow. The one we do for "entertainment", "amusement"; the other may be a spiritual duty.

"amuse", interestingly enough, means "to not think" in Greek and "to stare stupidly, fixedly" (as in, "into space") in old French.

Online Etymology Dictionary
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I agree with you on the importance of reading the lives of the Saints. This had made a tremendous impact in my spiritual life and walk in Orthodoxy. They give us inspiration and encouragement, and their very examples show us that we too can become holy.
It is interesting when studying the lives of Saints in times of immense persecution prior to the era of Constantine - and then studying those in the Constanine era (including the Desert Fathers) over the following 3 centuries...and then seeing what occurred in the Byzantine Empire and even seeing what occured with other Saints since then.

Monastics like the Desert Fathers didn't seem to agree with the concept of violence or war..and to say war was ever "just" is something I have not fully seen yet or been convinced of ....and of course, that all comes down to how "just" is defined. But again, I'm processing still. As said before, the perspective of soldiers (or anyone else in a position where violent force is a necessity at times - from the policeman to the father defending his home/family) is something that should be considered more...and thankfully, history gives a lot of interesting reviews on the matter. Especially when considering the perspectives of others who were soldiers and yet believers from an Eastern/Byzantine background and having a different view on what it means to battle (like or St. Sergius or St. Mercurius' ).


The military saints/warrior saints, such as Saint Demetrius of Thessaloniki (more here) or Saint Mercurius and how he (as a soldier) chose to die for Christ. and later St. Alexander Nevsky in the Russian world...their lives differ radically from what occurred with Fr. Zosima and St. Mary of Egypt (her account being a touching story of a woman who finds God in the desert. . The Life of Saint Irene Chrysovalantou - amazing as it was - would not be the same in experience of walking out holiness as with what occurred in Perpetua, who lived during the time of a great persecution of Christianity at the turn of the third century in Carthage, Northern Africa (now Tunisia) and who truly encouraged the saints by her testimony, noted in "The Passion of Saints Perpetua and Felicity", written before she was martyred in the time of Emperor Septimius Severus.

The life of St.Moses the Black - whom I have been inspired by when it comes to working with those from crime/gang culture and rough backgrounds (more here/here ) - would not be the same as the life of Justin Martyr or Tertulian who has discussed Christian loyalty to the Emperor, whoever he may be...something that many other Saints may've disagreed on when it came to politics/various expressions of how one's faith in the Kingdom was lived out.

They all had a myriad of experiences where faith in the Lord was displayed in differing ways - and differing concepts seemed to be in place more so at times than others. Again, it seems the lives of Saints who were soldiers were different from those Saints who were Monastics or being persecuted/not having some of the same decisions - even though certain principles were transcendent/applicable to all. Seeing that has helped me see the reality of how living out your walk in the Lord will never look exactly the same as others who came before you - and thus, you find out how to not compare yourself to others.

It'd be like trying to take the life of Noah (if you were Moses) and thinking that you were not doing a good enough job with what you were assigned to do in your era with leadership in the wilderness/setting God's people free from Egypt.....and then finding yourself building a boat and telling others "Well Noad did this when God commanded him and he found favor with God as being set apart!!"...despite the fact that both Noah and Moses were in relationship with the Lord and had unique experiences neither shared - and for Moses to look back at Noah/try to emulate all aspects of what he did would not be good, just like it'd not be good for Esther to look back on Daniel (as they were contemporaries in the Persian Empire during the Jewish Diaspora for 70yrs) and assume she was not good enough in her actions because she wasn't doing fully what Daniel did in the courts - even though her actions differed from him and were necessary for where she was. All of those saints are in the Book of Hebrews (Hebrews 11 ) - the GREAT Hall of Faith - and yet they're all a part of God's story of what sainthood looks like.

And likewise, it does seem to be the same today when it comes to each of us living our lives where the Lord has us - and seeking to do things one day at a time remembering what happened before us...but still remaining faithful to know that it could be the case that even those who came before us would potentially be looking at us today wondering how we'd be just as we wonder how to be like them.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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We are called to be Saints in this world. So, my question to you all is how do we do that living in the world?
Was reading the Word and was encouraged by what's said in Titus 3 and 1 Peter 2:11-13/ I Peter 3:15-17 in regards to what it means to be Saints in the world....as it seems it happens in ways which seem to often be deemed "ordinary" when it comes to lifestyle.

Personally, as one of my brothers in the Lord said best, it's interesting to see how the Lord calls us the "light of the world" ( Matthew 5:13-15 /Luke 16:7-9 )--and yet He also says of Himself that He is the Light of the World ( John 1:8-10 , John 3:18-20, John 8:11-13 , John 9:4-6 John 12:45-47 )--and the way that's harmonized is by realizing that we, in our own power/strength, can do nothing....and in trying to do so, as the Lord warned against in (John 15), we'll fail. As long as we reflect HIS Light that He gives the more we come into His Prescence and allow Him to transform us before we get concerned with transforming others, the more others will see His light in us..and want to have what we have.

When they see how the Lord has worked to transform my life (as his love for me first, per I John 3-4, is the reason I choose to love practically), they will want what I have. And it isn't something that has to be either BIG or RADICAL in order to truly shine/stand out as a Saint. The Saints were not "Super-Christians" - and the fact that they came in a variety of shapes/sizes and had flaws as well seems to show that they all had the experience of seeking to live out righteously in the times they were at...despite their inabilities for certain things.


If interested, there was a series by one of the ministries I've kept up with that really helped me out on the issue..and for more:
The third article by them is the best one, IMHO....especially in light of how many beat themselves up due to thinking they're not "shining as bright" as someone else who may be doing something that others deem to be more "memorable"---when the truth of the matter could be that people can easily confuse being a celebrity with doing that which really counts.
1 Thessalonians 4:10-121 Thessalonians 4
10 And in fact, you do love all of God&#8217;s family throughout Macedonia. Yet we urge you, brothers and sisters, to do so more and more, 11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you, 12 so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.
Nothing wrong with living an ordinary life where one simply wants to do what's right... as that's something extraordinarly rare in a time where everyone's so afraid to be "normal" like everyone else that they end up looking abnormal when trying to attempt living different rather than choosing to just live ( 1 Thessalonians 4:10-12 )...and "Better to be a nobody and yet have a servant than pretend to be somebody and have no food." (Proverbs 12:9, Proverbs 13:7, etc )
 
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So you're saying watching Pulp Fiction, Reservoir Dogs, Kill Bill, Walking Dead, and all the seasons of Married with Children might not be in line with a successful Lent? Huh? LOL^_^:p

Watching films glorifying violence or shows wickedly parodying family life is a far cry from descending into a den of sinners to minister to them somehow. The one we do for "entertainment", "amusement"; the other may be a spiritual duty.

"amuse", interestingly enough, means "to not think" in Greek and "to stare stupidly, fixedly" (as in, "into space") in old French.

Online Etymology Dictionary
 
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Dorothea

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Absolutely not. The Christian who thinks that we don't need to control what we take into our souls is deluded. I don't have a snappy quote from the Fathers, but "Garbage in, garbage out" is an obvious principle. Watching films glorifying violence or shows wickedly parodying family life is a far cry from descending into a den of sinners to minister to them somehow. The one we do for "entertainment", "amusement"; the other may be a spiritual duty.

"amuse", interestingly enough, means "to not think" in Greek and "to stare stupidly, fixedly" (as in, "into space") in old French.

Online Etymology Dictionary

Thanks very much, Rus, for your support and understanding. I also did not know that amuse came from the Greek and what it meant. Wow.

I remember a homily years ago by our priest at the time when we lived in the Spokane, WA area. Fr. Stephen. What a gentle, quiet soul. Anyhow, your comment on "garbage in and garbage out" reminds me of what he said. He said sinful things or evil things that we allow ourselves to watch and take in on tv or movies and such do darken parts of our souls, one bit at a time. I never forgot that.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I agree with you on the importance of reading the lives of the Saints. This had made a tremendous impact in my spiritual life and walk in Orthodoxy. They give us inspiration and encouragement, and their very examples show us that we too can become holy.
In preparation for Lent and study on what the Saints did, one book I've been checking out is Introduction to Eastern Christian Spirituality: The Syriac Tradition.

41VV9MG2DFL._SL500_SS500_.jpg


After being blessed by some of the lecture series I had been going through by Dr. Sebastian Brock on the Syrian tradition , the priest allowed me to borrow his copy 2 weeks ago/go through it. Really enjoyable read - even if it's a bit short (124pages) - as I came across it recently and it was refreshing to see some of the ways it helped re-familarize me with some of the figures I was previously aware of in the Syriac Orthodox Church . The book basically introduces some of the major writers and ascetics of the Syriac world/region of the Middle East that was the home of the Syriac language and culture. It was amazing seeing that although it is an area rich in thought and tradition, the Syriac world has not been studied extensively in English and is little known by the general public....and although the work is a modest introduction to a very abundant /complex heritage, it does the job of really inspiring you on what it means to live as a Saint.

The Syriac Fathers on Prayer and the Spiritual Life are something that really help me a lot in understanding the concept of simplicty. Last year, there was another read I got ahold of entitled The Spiritual World of Isaac the Syrian (more here and here/here) - and practically, it seemed that the theme of prayer was the most developed/thoroughly treated subject by the man. It was amazing to see how St.Isaac was very represntative of others in Syrian world who were very distinct/expressive when it came to the stories they shared to give truth..those stories or parables not having to be broken down like breaking down a math formula - but certain things inherent in them spiritually:) And it makes you consider the ways we in our times make a lot of things far more complicated than they need to be when it comes to living for the Lord - and illustrating that life at a simple level.
 
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"Some people living carelessly in the world have asked me: 'We have wives and are beset with social cares, and how can we lead the solitary life?' I replied to them: 'Do all the good you can; do not speak evil of anyone; do not steal from anyone; do not be arrogant towards anyone; do not hate anyone; do not be absent from the divine services; be compassionate to the needy; do not offend anyone; do not wreck another man's domestic happiness, and be content with what your own wives can give you. If you behave in this way, you will not be far from the Kingdom of Heaven.'" -- Saint John Climacus

And I would just add: pray without ceasing, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, the sinner", and do it with attentiveness in order to curb the habitual meanderings of our own corrupt thoughts and desires.

That is a great quote. It almost seems doable. Of course if I did those things, I'd still be "not far from the Kingdom" which might not be near enough... Maybe if I built a really tall pole in the backyard to live atop. Of course the neighborhood association would never go for that. In all honesty, sometimes I think it would be better to focus on being a guy who says his prayers with some regularity than a saint. I have so far to go.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Yes, getting in the habit of talking with God and having Him on our minds all the time (through prayer... my priest said if you are thinking of God, you are praying...I guess in a way).
I'd think that the Lord - who sees the motives of the heart and even hears thoughts in secret within our minds when what comes out audibly may be different - would not really think that prayer cannot be done in the mind. Sometimes, what I've noticed is that you just may not have the words to say at the time - and I've often done that in asking the Lord to hear me since what I'm thinking sounds clearer to me mentally than it does when I try to vocalize it.

Thank goodness the Holy SPirit and Christ intercede for us at all times :)
Romans 8:26-28 /Romans 8
Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us[a with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 8:34
Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Romans 8:33-35

Hebrews 7:24-26 Hebrews 7
But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

 
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Gxg (G²)

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consecrate every moment to God, forgive and love everyone around you, no matter what situation, and repent.
Real talk. I'd add, if I may say, that one would also need to know how to walk in grace/know when to relax with others and enjoy the gift that we can offer with each other's company. From what I've seen learning how to walk with a good sense of humor/play and cheerfulness ( Proverbs 15:13, Proverbs 17:22, Proverbs 18:14 ) can really help on walking out one's calling of being a Saint.
Proverbs 15:15

15 All the days of the afflicted are evil,
But he who is of a merry heart has a continual feast.


John Chryssavgis in his work In the Heart of the Desert: The Spirituality of the Desert Fathers and Mothers did an excellent job reviewing the ways that taking time out for our friends in relaxation and for ourselves in retreat was a big theme amongst the monastics in the Desert - for their ability to relate to others was something that also impacted their ability for prayer. There was one story on Abba Anthony that always stuck out to me when it came to what he noted about enjoyment. As shared here/here and here:
The Abba and the Bowman

A hunter in the desert saw Abba Anthony enjoying himself with the brethren and he was shocked. Wanting to show him that it was necessary sometimes to meet the needs of the brethren, the old man said to him,
"Put an arrow in your bow and shoot it."
So he did. The old man then said,
"Shoot another,"
and he did so. Then the old man said,
"Shoot yet again,"
and the hunter replied,
"If I bend my bow so much I will break it."

Then the old man said to him,
"It is the same with the work of God. If we stretch the brethren beyond measure they will soon break. Sometimes it is necessary to come down to meet their needs."

When he heard these words the hunter was pierced by compunction and, greatly edified by the old man, he went away. As for the brethren, they went home strengthened.

Man was made for work - and yet part of being able to work well is knowing the times you need to take to play. Scientifically, it has been proven repeatedly that all human beings - when they continually work and neglect taking time to play/enjoy themselves - will naturally burn themselves out...for the body was not meant for that. And in the world of science, this seems to be playing out/proven. In example, Kevin Carrol - who works in the Human Services field/Human Resources field for the most part in helping community development/children through events such as Sports and creative arts (including with helping little ones in war zones ) since those things are a type of Socializing Agent- has done a lot of good review on the matter...and I remember reading something he noted on the science of play that really amazed me (more here and here/here). To me, when I read his work, it simply reminded me of what many of the Desert Fathers had long noted with the need for enjoyment.
Ecclesiastes 3:4
There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under heaven:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,
3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,

a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance, 5 a time to scatter stones and a time to gather them..........Ecclesiastes 3:3-5/ Ecclesiastes 3
 
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Gxg (G²)

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their very examples show us that we too can become holy.
Thank goodness that Holiness is something we can all achieve. All a part of the process of Theosis...
 
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That is a great quote. It almost seems doable. Of course if I did those things, I'd still be "not far from the Kingdom" which might not be near enough... Maybe if I built a really tall pole in the backyard to live atop. Of course the neighborhood association would never go for that. In all honesty, sometimes I think it would be better to focus on being a guy who says his prayers with some regularity than a saint. I have so far to go.

You and me both. We'll get there with God's grace.
 
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I guess live the faith in repentance, a sober fear of God, pray & hope for the salvation of others, try to imitate such prayer & hope in hopefully good works, avoid false humility while trying to realize that I am an unworthy servant.
 
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Dorothea

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Gxg (G²);62651165 said:
It is interesting when studying the lives of Saints in times of immense persecution prior to the era of Constantine - and then studying those in the Constanine era (including the Desert Fathers) over the following 3 centuries...and then seeing what occurred in the Byzantine Empire and even seeing what occured with other Saints since then.

To say war was ever "just" is something I have not fully seen yet or been convinced of ....and of course, that all comes down to how "just" is defined. But again, I'm processing still. As said before, the perspective of soldiers (or anyone else in a position where violent force is a necessity at times - from the policeman to the father defending his home/family) is something that should be considered more...and thankfully, history gives a lot of interesting reviews on the matter. Especially when considering the perspectives of others who were soldiers and yet believers from an Eastern/Byzantine background and having a different view on what it means to battle (like Alexander Peresvet St. Alexander Nevsky or St. Sergius or St. Mercurius' and others who understood the concept of battle as a necessary struggle, here/here ).


The military saints/warrior saints, such as Saint Demetrius of Thessaloniki (more here) or Saint Mercurius and how he (as a soldier) chose to die for Christ. and later St. Alexander Nevsky in the Russian world...their lives differ radically from what occurred with Fr. Zosima and St. Mary of Egypt (her account being a touching story of a woman who finds God in the desert. . The Life of Saint Irene Chrysovalantou - amazing as it was - would not be the same in experience of walking out holiness as with what occurred in Perpetua, who lived during the time of a great persecution of Christianity at the turn of the third century in Carthage, Northern Africa (now Tunisia) and who truly encouraged the saints by her testimony, noted in "The Passion of Saints Perpetua and Felicity", written before she was martyred in the time of Emperor Septimius Severus.

The life of St.Moses the Black - whom I have been inspired by when it comes to working with those from crime/gang culture and rough backgrounds (more here/here ) - would not be the same as the life of Justin Martyr or Tertulian who has discussed Christian loyalty to the Emperor, whoever he may be...something that many other Saints may've disagreed on when it came to politics/various expressions of how one's faith in the Kingdom was lived out.

They all had a myriad of experiences where faith in the Lord was displayed in differing ways - and differing concepts seemed to be in place more so at times than others. Again, it seems the lives of Saints who were soldiers were different from those Saints who were Monastics or being persecuted/not having some of the same decisions - even though certain principles were transcendent/applicable to all. Seeing that has helped me see the reality of how living out your walk in the Lord will never look exactly the same as others who came before you - and thus, you find out how to not compare yourself to others.

It'd be like trying to take the life of Noah (if you were Moses) and thinking that you were not doing a good enough job with what you were assigned to do in your era with leadership in the wilderness/setting God's people free from Egypt.....and then finding yourself building a boat and telling others "Well Noad did this when God commanded him and he found favor with God as being set apart!!"...despite the fact that both Noah and Moses were in relationship with the Lord and had unique experiences neither shared - and for Moses to look back at Noah/try to emulate all aspects of what he did would not be good, just like it'd not be good for Esther to look back on Daniel (as they were contemporaries in the Persian Empire during the Jewish Diaspora for 70yrs) and assume she was not good enough in her actions because she wasn't doing fully what Daniel did in the courts - even though her actions differed from him and were necessary for where she was. All of those saints are in the Book of Hebrews (Hebrews 11 ) - the GREAT Hall of Faith - and yet they're all a part of God's story of what sainthood looks like.

And likewise, it does seem to be the same today when it comes to each of us living our lives where the Lord has us - and seeking to do things one day at a time remembering what happened before us...but still remaining faithful to know that it could be the case that even those who came before us would potentially be looking at us today wondering how we'd be just as we wonder how to be like them.
Thanks very much, G. I finally got the time to sit down and focus on all that you wrote (I admit I haven't read the links yet. That will take some more time, and not sure I'll get around to most of them). I am thankful I understand what you are saying, and it brings a settling to my soul. My soul and heart, and the whole of me has felt so off lately...like a jigsaw puzzle with pieces scattered and not interlocked. I tend to be so extreme, and I do have the tendency to be a bit anxious and such, so I battle going from one extreme to the other. Overdoing trying to be something I'm not yet... and spiraling into despondency or despair because of this. Your comments really helped me to feel a little sense of peace. I need to just live the best way I know how and quit trying so hard. I've obviously been told this from my priest in the past, but it seems I still battle with it. Thanks again.

It is true each Saint has his/her own story, and each is a unique person, and we are supposed to imitate them, but we are still our own person and need to follow the Will of God that He has for us....for me. :)
 
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