vinsight4u said in post 303:
Hi Bible2
Hi.
vinsight4u said in post 303:
I agree also that the US is making a huge mistake sending military arms to Iraq. Maybe you could start a new thread on this, and we could get a good discussion going on it. Focus right in on how Iraq is coming back strong soon!
There's no need to start a new thread, because this thread is about the start of the tribulation, and the tribulation could start with an all-out Iraqi (& Syrian) invasion, defeat, and occupation of Israel, as was shown in post 299. Regarding that post, someone might say that the Baathists who will be ruling Iraq & Syria would be deterred from attacking Israel because of Israel's nuclear weapons. But even though Iraq & Syria know of Israel's nuclear weapons and its tendency to retaliate in huge measure against attacks, Iraq and Syria could still decide to make an all-out attack against Israel, for a couple of reasons. First, by that time Iran could have successfully built (or secretly purchased from North Korea) and tested its first nuclear weapon, and have claimed to have built a few more to (in its words) "serve solely for defensive purposes against Israel's nuclear threat". Iraq and Syria could then think that Israel won't use its nuclear weapons against them, even if they do attack Israel with all their conventional forces, because Israel would then have to fear Iran retaliating against Israel with nuclear weapons.
Second, the destruction of the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque could so enrage the rank and file of the (Muslim) Iraqi and Syrian Armies that they could demand an immediate invasion of Israel, and threaten an all-out revolt against their generals if their generals refuse to lead them in the attack. Fearing for their own lives at the hands of their own soldiers, the generals could initiate the attack against Israel, figuring that even if Israel goes ahead and nukes Baghdad and Damascus in retaliation for the total defeat of Israel, by that time the Iraqi and Syrian armies will all be in Israel, out of harm's way from Israel's nukes, for Israel isn't going to nuke its own land.
But what good would it do the Baathists to gain "Palestine" and Egypt while losing Baghdad and Damascus to Israeli nukes? The Baathists could figure that the loss of Baghdad and Damascus (which they could evacuate ahead of time) is worth it in order to completely defeat Israel and Egypt, thereby removing much of the foundation of U.S. hegemony over the Arab world. And by the time the U.S. makes its counter-attack to "restore" (i.e. to take back) Israel and Egypt, the Baathists could have become so well dug-in, and so well equipped and advised militarily by the Russians (in the name of "Arab self-determination"), that the U.S. counter-attack could fail, and leave the Baathists in control, and in a position to extend their power over all the rest of the Arab nations.
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Also, someone might say that the Baathists could never defeat Israel because the awesome Israeli Air Force would be able to take out any armies streaming toward Israel. But the Israeli Air Force could be unable to hit enough of the massive Iraqi invading force to prevent the little territory of Israel from being overrun. For between Baghdad and Israel is basically flat desert across which massive numbers of Iraqi tanks, armored personnel carriers, and rapid-fire, rapidly-moving tracked howitzers could stream west toward Israel in very wide and staggered formations, which Israel's Air Force could have difficulty taking out quickly. And interspersed liberally among the Iraqi forces could be large numbers of highly-mobile Iraqi SAM units, which could manage to take out most of Israel's Air Force as it's attacking the Iraqi forces. Any Iraqi force configuration which the U.S. will make sure is capable of surviving all of Iran's air and surface defenses and overrunning Iran's relatively huge territory could have no problem with surviving Israel's air and surface defenses at least to the point of still being able to overrun the little territory of Israel.
vinsight4u said in post 303:
I don't see the war in Daniel 11 as being the time of the 4th seal, but the third.
The war itself would be the second seal (Revelation 6:4), the "great sword" of which could be Israel's nuclear weapons.
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vinsight4u said in post 304:
The book being referred to as at hand messages, that can't be sealed, made obscure, is the little book that John ate in Rev. 10.
Rev. 22:10's "this book" is the entire book of Revelation, the fulfillment of which is "at hand" (Rev. 22:10, Rev. 1:3), and which the entire church needs to "keep" the sayings of (Rev. 22:7,9, Rev. 1:3), and which Jesus gave through an angel to the entire church (Rev. 22:16, Rev. 1:1-3).
The entire book of Revelation being unsealed (Rev. 22:10) means it shouldn't be difficult for saved people of any time to understand it if they simply read it as it's written: chronologically & almost-entirely literally (See post 302). Regarding it being chronological, see the "chronological" part of post 210.
vinsight4u said in post 304:
The 7th trumpet would sound and that "mystery of God" part of Revelation would end.
Rev. 10:7's "finished" in the original Greek is "teleo" (G5055), which can mean "performed" (e.g. Lk. 2:39). Rev. 10:7 means the prophetic writings regarding the tribulation will finish being performed at the 7th trumpet of the tribulation. For out of the 7th trumpet's temple opening will come the final stage of the tribulation, the 7 plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath (Rev. 11:19, Rev. 15:5-16:1).
Rev. 10:7's "mystery" is currently known by the church, just as the "mystery" in Rom. 16:25-26 and Col. 1:26 is currently known by the church. For Rev. 10:7's mystery has already been "declared to his servants the prophets" (Rev. 10:7), just as the "mystery" in Rom. 16:25-26 and Col. 1:26 is already "made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets" (Rom. 16:26).
vinsight4u said in post 304:
Rev. 17:7 "...the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns."
Regarding the mystery of the woman in Revelation 17, see the "Babylon" parts of post 256.
Regarding the mystery of the beast that carries her, which has seven heads and ten horns, see post 224.
vinsight4u said in post 304:
The book was shown to John as open in Rev. 10, and he ate it so he could get more visions. "prophesy again"
Regarding "prophesy again" (Rev. 10:11), John's prophecies in the book of Revelation were originally sent to the 1st-century church (Rev. chs. 1-3), which probably expected all of them to be fulfilled shortly thereafter (shortly from the viewpoint of men, not God). But when Revelation's future prophecies (Rev. 4:1) in chs. 6-22 didn't happen right away, as the centuries passed the church began to pay less and less attention to Revelation. It's only in modern times that a significant portion of the church has become interested again in Revelation and the future fulfillment of chs. 6-22, so that in effect John is, through the enduring book of Revelation, "prophesying again" (Rev. 10:11), this time to the modern church, just as he prophesied originally to the early church.
vinsight4u said in post 304:
So after the 7th trumpet mystery of God section ends, comes to John the time of the chapters -where he prophesied again. The rapture of the church time is also shown there, so it was not the mystery of God.
Do you mean the rapture will occur at the 7th trumpet? If so, Jesus' 2nd coming, and so the rapture (2 Thes. 2:1, Mt. 24:30-31), won't occur immediately after the sounding of the tribulation's 7th trumpet and the declaration of the replacement of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5 year worldwide reign (Rev. 13:5-18, 12:6,14) with Jesus' reign (Rev. 11:15). For a "time" (Rev. 11:18) can last awhile (cf. Rev. 12:14). (It's like if someone said "It's time this house gets sold"; this doesn't mean it will get sold immediately.) The only part of Rev. 11:18 that will happen immediately after the 7th trumpet sounds is "thy wrath is come", for the plagues of the vials (Rev. 16), the tribulation's final stage, will come out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly temple opening (Rev. 11:19, 15:5-16:1). So the 7th trumpet (Rev. 11:15-19), even though it will be the last trumpet to sound during the tribulation, it won't be the resurrection "last trump" of 1 Cor. 15:52. The latter won't sound until after the entire tribulation of Rev. chs. 6-18/Mt. 24 is over, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Mt. 24:29-31, 1 Thes. 4:15-16), which won't occur until Rev. 19, and which is when the church will be resurrected (Rev. 19:7-20:6, 1 Cor. 15:21-23,51-54, 1 Thes. 4:15-16).
Before the 2nd coming, the tribulation's final, Rev. 16 stage could last for 75 days. For Rev. 16's first vial could be poured out immediately after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign, which 1,260 days could begin at the setting up of the abomination of desolation (Mt. 24:15, Dan. 11:31,36), and Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the setting up of the abomination of desolation (Dan. 12:11-12, Rev. 16:15). An analogy for the possible 75-day vials delay between Jesus taking legal possession of the earth (Rev. 11:15) and his return to take de facto, physical possession of it (Rev. chs. 19-20) would be someone in New York legally inheriting a house in California 75 days before he moves there to live in that house.
At Jesus' 2nd coming, he will resurrect and judge only the church (1 Cor. 15:21-23, 1 Thes. 4:15-16, Rev. 19:7-20:6, Ps. 50:3-6, cf. Mk. 13:27), and then he will marry the obedient part of the church (Rev. 19:7-8, Mt. 25:1-12). Immediately after that, Rev. 19:11-21 will occur. So both the resurrection and the rewarding of the church spoken of in Rev. 11:18, as well as the destroying of the destroyers of the earth spoken of in Rev. 11:18, could occur 75 days after the 7th trumpet's sounding. And because a "time" can last awhile (cf. Rev. 12:14), this would still be well within the "time" referred to in Rev. 11:18. Everyone not resurrected and judged at Jesus' 2nd coming won't be resurrected and judged until Rev. 20:11-15, which won't occur until sometime after the returned Jesus and the bodily resurrected church have reigned on the earth for 1,000 years (Rev. 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29). Both resurrections and judgments can still occur within Rev. 11:18's "time", for the original Greek word (kairos, G2540) translated there as "time" can refer to even quite a long period. For example, the same Greek word is used in 2 Cor. 6:2 to refer to the "time" of people getting saved, which has been going on for some 2,000 years.