Glenn Morton has left the building

[CabVet]

I don't go to church so that doesn't do much for me.

Oh, that explains a lot.

 

[RickG]

It kind of sounds like you're saying that evidence for an old earth is an argument questioning religious beliefs? We have a history of talking past each other, so I'm pretty sure I'm missing something here.

I only question religious beliefs with respect to interpretation of scripture. I am perfectly fine with anyone believing in a young earth or a literal interpretation of Genesis. My beef is primarily with those who misrepresent, etc., for what ever reason.

Also, what do you do when deeply held religious beliefs are almost inseparably intertwined with the misrepresentations of science? E.g. you may be pointing out how YEC resources get the science of radiometric dating wrong, but a YEC reading your words may well perceive this as an attack against their literalist belief.

It is difficult not to give that perception, especially with those who do not have a solid background in any physical science and/or haven't the slightest idea what is really involved in doing "original" research. I hope to do a better job in the future. Perhaps I need to review my approach. I am always open to suggestions.

 

[RickG]

Yes, almost all of it! Evolution...godless history..vile music, sex education, etc etc.
That's nice.

That is quite sickening.....your post that is.

 

[Jro]

I was willing to listen to him about the anti-religion thing, but then it just started getting weird. I gave up after he called Sandra Fluck something the profanity filter won't let me type out over including contraception in health insurance plans. While the free contraception issue might be ethically tricky with religious organisations, calling her derogatory names and assuming all kinds of things about her sex life because of one stance she took is nothing but blind prejudice. (Not to mention not being terribly tolerant of "dissent")

If skanks want their medical expenses covered they should have been bron male. Also, I think you Flucked up the spelling a bit - I don't really care I just wanted to make the joke. The abuse that Fluke had to endure because of her testimony was just ridiculous.

This man has been a practicing scientist for decades. Right, in industry and not academia, but he must have seen some scientific debate. He must have seen how difficult it can be to get scientists to agree on anything. When there is such overwhelming consensus on an issue that started out as controversial, there is a reason. To me, the above just sounds like he's got a chip on his shoulder because his pet hypothesis isn't taken seriously. Quoting a Daily Fail article about one stupid thing one professor may or may not have really said doesn't help his case.

What can I say. I like Morton's Demon and IIRC he had some neat resources on his site... but tantrums like this make me not miss his contribution as much as I might otherwise have.

Yeah I don't really know what he's upset about here - that science can reach meaningful conclusions and most people want their children to be educated in science and not just "things some people think!"?

 

[dad]

That is quite sickening.....your post that is.

Too bad it's the truth.

 

[TheBear]

Well, not the building per se, but he's removed his website from the Internet has posted a rather long and slightly bitter post explaining why here:
Why I took my creation web pages down

That's too bad.

 

[Loudmouth]

Scripture and verse? We are not talking about non founding beliefs here are we? If so we can start with atheism and science so called. They whacked em by the cities full, literally. A Christian martyr lays down his life to save as many as possible. Those that are suicide bombers lay down their life to kill as many as possible. Big difference!

This is what you said:

"If God told them it was OK, nothing else is needed."

That is exactly the mind set that leads to people smashing airplanes into buildings.

So? Does TV and movies and Obama speeches get limited to the US??

Are we talking about christian persecution in the US or not? I will gladly agree that christians are persecuted in other countries because they are.

Right, the Satanic godless school system.

I will agree that it is secular, but it is not Satanic. It is not so much godless as areligious. No teacher is allowed to tell students that they should not believe in God during school hours and in their roles as teachers. No teacher is allowed to stop students from praying or reading their Bible in their free time. There are massive restrictions put on teachers to protect the religious beliefs of students. How is that Satanic?

His policies are not are you aware of that? This isn't personal (unless the guy sets up an abomination on the temple mount or something)

Which of his policies supports the persecution of christians?

EDMONTON, Alberta, February 23, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Under Alberta’s new Education Act, homeschoolers and faith-based schools will not be permitted to teach that ****sexual acts are sinful as part of their academic program, says the spokesperson for Education Minister Thomas Lukaszuk.

Where is Alberta? I clearly asked nowhere in the UNITED STATES is it illegal for students to read their Bible during their free time. IN THE UNITED STATES. Please, read what I write.

"¶ At Pace High School near Pensacola, Fla., teachers cited the Bible as fact in class and one teacher preached to students with a bullhorn as they arrived at school. In litigation that ended in July, the Santa Rosa County district agreed to stop promotion of religion but said that teachers could pray in private settings and could use expressions like “God bless you.”

Yes, that is in line with the US Constitution. Teachers are not allowed to evangelize during their work hours. Public schools are not places for publicly paid government employees to evangelize. They are also not allowed to tell students that they should not believe in God. The subject is just avoided as it should be. I don't see why this is a problem.

¶ In Sumner County, Tenn., teachers led students in prayer and Bible study, and allowed Gideons International to distribute Bibles during school hours. Officials agreed this month to end the practices.

As they should. It is a clear violatation of the Establishment Clause. They are still free to hold open meetings at churches and hand out Bibles, pray, etc. No one is stopping them.

“We continue to see, on a regular basis across the country, public school officials who include prayer in school events, try to convert students and engage in other promotion of religion,” said Heather Weaver, a lawyer with the A.C.L.U.’s program on religious freedom.
“In recent years, public school officials have engaged in these activities even more aggressively,” Ms. Weaver added.
Christian legal advocates counter that such plain violations are far less common than the opposite problem: overzealous officials trying to cleanse the schools of religion, punishing students for protected speech like personal prayer or handing out devotional messages to their friends.
“The free-speech rights of students and teachers are under an all-out assault,” said Kelly Shackelford, president of the Liberty Institute, a Christian legal group in Plano, Tex. He described one continuing legal case in which “children had pencils ripped out of their hands” because they carried a Christian message and students were “banned from writing Merry Christmas to the soldiers.”
Despite such disputes, legal religious expression is more present in schools now than it has been for decades, said Charles Haynes, a senior scholar at the First Amendment Center in Washington who advises school districts and helped develop teacher guidelines that are consistent with the law. It has been firmly established, he said, that students may pray if it is not disruptive, and can share their faith with other students. Teachers may pray with other teachers outside of class, though not in front of students during school hours.
But gray areas persist and dozens of bitter disputes erupt every year over the propriety of student prayers at graduations and football games (usually ruled illegal if given over a loudspeaker to a captive audience) or whether children can hand out written prayers at a Christmas party (permissible in theory, some experts say, but courts have allowed school officials to make judgments based on the circumstances).
Watchdog groups like the A.C.L.U., Americans United for Separation of Church and State and the Freedom From Religion Foundation say that in the last few years, they have learned more often about what they call blatant violations like the South Carolina rally. It is unclear, they say, whether the number of such events is growing, or whether they are now more likely to come to light. But still, these advocates say, even when clear violations occur, concerned families are often reluctant to bring legal challenges because they fear social hostility.
The September prayer rally at New Heights Middle School in Jefferson had deep support in the community. With a population of 47,000, Chesterfield County supports at least 200 Christian churches, according to Paul Wood Jr., pastor of the First United Methodist Church in Cheraw, S.C.
“There’s not a lot of religious diversity here, so it becomes hard for people to believe that everybody isn’t a Christian,” said Mr. Wood, who was perhaps the only pastor in the county to publicly question the rally.
The students were addressed by Christian Chapman of Charlotte, N.C., who describes himself as a “traveling evangelist” and often speaks at schools, he said in an interview.
“I definitely think that we should try to get our relationship with Christ back into the schools,” said Mr. Chapman, 43. “Jesus represents everything we want our students to live by.”
For non-Christians to hear this message, he said, is no worse than Bible believers being forced to hear about evolution every day."


Battling Anew Over the Place of Religion in Public Schools - NYTimes.com

Do you understand the Establishment Clause or not?

 

[dad]

This is what you said:

"If God told them it was OK, nothing else is needed."

That is exactly the mind set that leads to people smashing airplanes into buildings.

Insanity, nowhere in the bible do we find God telling people that.

Are we talking about christian persecution in the US or not? I will gladly agree that christians are persecuted in other countries because they are.

I guess the main point was freedom. The curtailed freedoms and court challenges to Christmas plays, crosses, prayer, bible and etc etc...show us that people like Glen are tight on the money in noticing the unbalance.

I will agree that it is secular, but it is not Satanic.

How would you know? If Satan sought to shoo God from schools and supplant scripture with science it seems he succeeded.

It is not so much godless as areligious.

Tomatoe..tomato.

No teacher is allowed to tell students that they should not believe in God during school hours and in their roles as teachers.

But they can push Sodomy and tell kids it is ok not to believe.

No teacher is allowed to stop students from praying or reading their Bible in their free time.

Absurd. Like one is supposed to spend lunchtime studying the boring old bible. Kids need it taught and explained.

There are massive restrictions put on teachers to protect the religious beliefs of students. How is that Satanic?

Nonsense. Are you talking just about the US? One translation of the word antichrist is to replace Christ. So by offering anything but Christ and making God like a secret disease that is uncool while promoting anti biblical anti God things, they are truly in the antichrist spirit, despite the hypocritical charade.

Which of his policies supports the persecution of christians?

The opposition to Godly marriage, and respect of babies lives come to mind. When one makes the ways of Gomorrah the government guiding light, and goes against God, then guess who gets gagged?

Where is Alberta? I clearly asked nowhere in the UNITED STATES is it illegal for students to read their Bible during their free time. IN THE UNITED STATES. Please, read what I write.

Well, it depends who you believe. Many times schools will put on a self righteous face and claim the punishment was for something else.


"EAST COUNTY — A student who claims he was suspended for talking about Christianity to classmates and banned from bringing his Bible to campus has filed a federal lawsuit against an East County school district."

Student booted in Bible flap suing school district | UTSanDiego.com

Yes, that is in line with the US Constitution. Teachers are not allowed to evangelize during their work hours.

That is all they do do! Preach ungosly evolution lifestyle and etc.

Public schools are not places for publicly paid government employees to evangelize.

Yes that is all they are, but the evangelization may not include the truth of God.

They are also not allowed to tell students that they should not believe in God. The subject is just avoided as it should be. I don't see why this is a problem.

When they teach children against God's word that is what they are doing.

 

[Split Rock]

Absurd. Like one is supposed to spend lunchtime studying the boring old bible. Kids need it taught and explained.

Glad you think reading the bible is absurd and boring. Well said, dad!

 

[Loudmouth]

Insanity, nowhere in the bible do we find God telling people that.

You pretend that God only speaks through the Bible.

I guess the main point was freedom.

What you seem to be missing is that freedom of religion is not a freedom given to the government, and that includes public schools and teachers while they are working as teachers. That freedom is given to citizens.

The government is not stopping churches from putting on christmas plays. The government is not stopping people from attending. No one is being arrested because they are preaching in churches.

How would you know? If Satan sought to shoo God from schools and supplant scripture with science it seems he succeeded.

How do you know?

But they can push Sodomy and tell kids it is ok not to believe.

No, they can't.

Absurd. Like one is supposed to spend lunchtime studying the boring old bible. Kids need it taught and explained.

Then they need to go to church where such things are taught and explained.

Nonsense. Are you talking just about the US?

Yes, I am.

One translation of the word antichrist is to replace Christ. So by offering anything but Christ and making God like a secret disease that is uncool while promoting anti biblical anti God things, they are truly in the antichrist spirit, despite the hypocritical charade.

You are seriously putting this forward as evidence of persecution? Really?

The opposition to Godly marriage, and respect of babies lives come to mind. When one makes the ways of Gomorrah the government guiding light, and goes against God, then guess who gets gagged?

Name one Obama policy that is opposed to Godly marriage or the respect of babies lives. Just one.

"EAST COUNTY — A student who claims he was suspended for talking about Christianity to classmates and banned from bringing his Bible to campus has filed a federal lawsuit against an East County school district."

Student booted in Bible flap suing school district | UTSanDiego.com

And why do you think they filed a lawsuit?

That is all they do do! Preach ungosly evolution lifestyle and etc.

There is no such thing as "evolution lifestyle". Do you notice how you have to make stuff up?

Yes that is all they are, but the evangelization may not include the truth of God.

And more made up blather.

When they teach children against God's word that is what they are doing.

So if they teach heliocentrism, that is teaching against God's word?

 

[Split Rock]

You pretend that God only speaks through the Bible.

Even worse... dad pretends that God only speaks through dad!

 

[CabVet]

Even worse... dad pretends that God only speaks through dad!

Even worse, he pretends he is God.

 

[dad]

Glad you think reading the bible is absurd and boring. Well said, dad!

For a poor kid trying to read it I suspect it could be.

 

[dad]

You pretend that God only speaks through the Bible.

Why, where have you heard Him outside of His word?

What you seem to be missing is that freedom of religion is not a freedom given to the government, and that includes public schools and teachers while they are working as teachers. That freedom is given to citizens.

Nonsense. There is little freedom and less freedom to promote and enjoy God and His word.

The government is not stopping churches from putting on christmas plays. The government is not stopping people from attending. No one is being arrested because they are preaching in churches.

Neither is anyone attending

How do you know?

Because we do not see scripture and Jesus and salvation taught in said schools.

No, they can't.

Yes they can and do in a defacto way.

Then they need to go to church where such things are taught and explained.

No. They need a believing population and nation. Since Christians in the US traditionally constituted a majority of the population it is a travesty of justice to have them shoved into a closet while the godless get the red carpet treatment.

Yes, I am.

Then speak of more.

You are seriously putting this forward as evidence of persecution? Really?

When God's word and people are suppressed that is persecution.

Name one Obama policy that is opposed to Godly marriage or the respect of babies lives. Just one.

Promoting the killing of babies and the replacement of traditional unions with something else.

And why do you think they filed a lawsuit?

The bigger question to me is why don't people file more.

There is no such thing as "evolution lifestyle". Do you notice how you have to make stuff up?

Forgot the comma. So that was teach ungodly evolution, and lifestyles.

So if they teach heliocentrism, that is teaching against God's word?

That depends if they make it clear their knowledge ends with the fishbowl and present state!

 

[dad]

Even worse... dad pretends that God only speaks through dad!

False. He spoke through scripture, dad just read some of that.

 

[dad]

Even worse, he pretends he is God.

That should be reported as a slanderous lie.

 

[Loudmouth]

Why, where have you heard Him outside of His word?

Many people claim to.

There is little freedom and less freedom to promote and enjoy God and His word.

It is lies like this that really hurt your arguments.

Because we do not see scripture and Jesus and salvation taught in said schools.

And this also really hurts your arguments. A refusal to turn our country into a theocracy is not persecution. It never has been. Get over it.

Promoting the killing of babies and the replacement of traditional unions with something else.

No one is promoting the killing of babies, and no one is looking to replace christian marriages.

So that was teach ungodly evolution, and lifestyles.

Evolution is no more ungodly than gravity or atoms. Teaching science is now on your list of ways to persecute christians. How pathetic.

 

[dad]

Many people claim to.

It better agree with the bible though...so who cares?

It is lies like this that really hurt your arguments.

Fine, keep the illusion of freedom. The US has the highest incarceration rate if I recall of any country on earth. It often has the draft. It has mandatory education. It has migrant workers living under less than open working conditions. It has restrictions of liberties of bible believers in almost every sphere. While it hasn't yet started openly torturing and killing believers (except many Muslims) I think that the trend is clear.

And this also really hurts your arguments. A refusal to turn our country into a theocracy is not persecution. It never has been. Get over it.

People being forced to be quiet about God's views on life topics qualify as suppression and persecution. The open promotion of evil things means that the process of fermenting into darkness and evil is accelerated.

No one is promoting the killing of babies, and no one is looking to replace christian marriages.

False. Millions are killed each year and the sacred institution of marriage has been gutterized, as well as the family.

Evolution is no more ungodly than gravity or atoms.

It is when the meaning involves evolving beyond creation and from some other point of origin!

Teaching science is now on your list of ways to persecute christians. How pathetic.

So called science, which is unrelated to knowledge and fact and is not science in fact. When you teach how to make a bridge, or mix chemicals and things that involve the real world, that is different. When you teach that God never created but push your baseless fantasies as the truth, then you are forcing evil on the kids. I can't wait till He comes to stop all that once and for all.

 

[Split Rock]

For a poor kid trying to read it I suspect it could be.

Is that why you have so much trouble interpreting scripture?

False. He spoke through scripture, dad just read some of that.

And then you added all that "split/merge" dadology to it.. and claimed it was God's Word.

 

[Loudmouth]

It better agree with the bible though...so who cares?

Obviously, you do.

It has restrictions of liberties of bible believers in almost every sphere.

Laughable at best.

While it hasn't yet started openly torturing and killing believers (except many Muslims) I think that the trend is clear.

That's quite the slippery slope you have going there. You are going from teachers not being allowed to evangelize to their students at public schools to torture and killing. Do you really expect us to take you seriously?

People being forced to be quiet about God's views on life topics qualify as suppression and persecution.

Simply isn't happening.

The open promotion of evil things means that the process of fermenting into darkness and evil is accelerated.

OHHHHHH, THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHH

There's a sandwich board that needs you, something about something being "near".

False. Millions are killed each year and the sacred institution of marriage has been gutterized, as well as the family.

No, they aren't. Marriage has not been gutterized. Allowing gays to marry does not negate christian marriages. It never has. It does not stop heterosexual couples from being married using the christian rites they prefer, and it does not prevent them from raising a christian family.

Of all the irony, you are complaining because you can not take rights away from other people and tell them how to live.

It is when the meaning involves evolving beyond creation and from some other point of origin!

Yes, just like it goes against God to teach Heliocentrism.

"First, . . . to want to affirm that in reality the sun is at the center of the world and only turns on itself without moving from east to west, and the earth . . . revolves with great speed about the sun . . . is a very dangerous thing, likely not only to irritate all scholastic philosophers and theologians, but also to harm the Holy Faith by rendering Holy Scripture false."--Cardinal Bellarmine

We've heard it all before.

So called science, which is unrelated to knowledge and fact and is not science in fact.

And now you have to lie about what is and isn't science. Sorry, but you do not have the freedom to ruin other people's education.