Verses That Disprove SDA Sabbath

Dale

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The reason why we ignore some of these quotations, is because, I must confess that we are a bit shocked why you would still be reverting to these old arguments that have been buried centuries ago.

1. Justin Martyr came from a pagan gentile background and was raised going to a heathen school, and studied Pothagoris.

2. Numerous quotations from Justin Martyr have proven to be forgeries.

3. If you had even casually read the most basic Adventist apologetics, you would have found your arguments hopelessly astray a long time ago.

Try reading "History of the Sabbath" by JN Andrews. Or "From Sabbath to Sunday" by Samuele Bacchiocchi.

Or "The Lost Meaning of the Seventh Day" by Sigve Tonstad

Or a whole study on the writings of Justin Martyr on the Sabbath by Dr. William H. Shea.

Become informed by OUR research before you attempt to refute us and pretend as though we have not done our homework.

It would be much appreciated.



You emphasize the pagan background of Justin Martyr. Luke and a number of other person confirmed as Christians and as saints in the New Testament were born and raised as pagans. The posthumous surname of Martyr was conferred on Justin because he was a martyr to the Christian faith when Marcus Aurelius was Emperor.


On the possibility that statements attributed to Justin Martyr could be forgeries, or mis-attributed, try this.


Encarta under Justin Maryr:


“The books that are ascribed to Justin with certainty are the two Apologies for the Christians, which comprise an erudite defense of Christians against charges of atheism and sedition in the Roman state...”
© 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


The section that I quoted is from the First Apology of Justin Martyr, “ascribed ...with certainty”.


*


*
 
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New_Wineskin

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Seventh-day Adventists don't teach it as a day of leisure.
From www.merriam-webster.com , primary definition of leisure ...

1 freedom provided by the cessation of activities; especially : time free from work or duties

This is the very definition of the Sabbath . *You* are stating that the SDA's don't teach it as the Lord commanded . Of course , we all knew that and have been saying so for months . You all continue to spout what "God's Laws" and now admit you intentionally teach against the Sabbath .
 
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New_Wineskin

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Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Actually the bible says they broke bread daily so it doesn't signify an event in and of itself.

Correct . Nor does it state that it was a command for obtaining/maintaining salvation .
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by winslow Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Actually the bible says they broke bread daily so it doesn't signify an event in and of itself.
Correct . Nor does it state that it was a command for obtaining/maintaining salvation .
I would think, in the NC, the assembling of Saints is more important than observing the sabbath the Jews of today observe.
At least that is what I gather from the book of Hebrews.

Hebrews 10:25 not forsaking the assembling/episunagwghn <1997> of ourselves together, as a custom of certain [is], but exhorting,
and so much the more as ye see the day coming nigh.

2 Thessalonians 2:1 And we ask you brethren, in regard to the parousia of our Lord Jesus Christ and of our gathering/episunagwghV <1997> together unto Him,

1997. episunagoge ep-ee-soon-ag-o-gay' from 1996; a complete collection; especially a Christian meeting (for worship):--assembling (gathering) together.
1909. epi ep-ee' a primary preposition; properly, meaning superimposition (of time, place, order, etc.), as a relation of distribution (with the genitive case), i.e. over, upon, etc.;
4863. sunago soon-ag'-o from 4862 and 71; to lead together, i.e. collect or convene; specially, to entertain (hospitably):--+ accompany, assemble (selves, together), bestow, come together, gather (selves together, up, together), lead into, resort, take in.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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New_Wineskin

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I would think, in the NC, the assembling of Saints is more important than observing the sabbath the Jews of today observe.
At least that is what I gather from the book of Hebrews.

Hebrews 10:25 not forsaking the assembling/episunagwghn <1997> of ourselves together, as a custom of certain [is], but exhorting,
and so much the more as ye see the day coming nigh.


Hebrews has a couple of main topics before that passage . In light of those topics , the author was not presenting a command for maintaining salvation . I would also say that most of those quoting that passage violate it on a routine basis . How many will forsake assemblies of believers as they travel to the assembly they want ?

I would also say that a command would have as a necessity a detailed account of how to observe that command . In this case , how often would one attend these assemblies to obtain enough points for salvation ? What is contained in the assemblies ? What may not be contained in the assemblies ? What is the punishment for not attending ? If there are more than one assembly in a certain radius from "home" , is one commanded to go to all of them ? Is one allowed to pass ( forsake ) one assembly to go to another ? Is one allowed to continually pass ( forsake ) one assembly or more to go to the same one time and again ?

Since the author is suggesting not to forsake the asssemblies as some are , in what manner *are* they forsaking them ?

None of these questions are answered in the text . It is not a command .
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Hebrews has a couple of main topics before that passage . In light of those topics , the author was not presenting a command for maintaining salvation . I would also say that most of those quoting that passage violate it on a routine basis . How many will forsake assemblies of believers as they travel to the assembly they want ?

I would also say that a command would have as a necessity a detailed account of how to observe that command . In this case , how often would one attend these assemblies to obtain enough points for salvation ? What is contained in the assemblies ? What may not be contained in the assemblies ? What is the punishment for not attending ? If there are more than one assembly in a certain radius from "home" , is one commanded to go to all of them ? Is one allowed to pass ( forsake ) one assembly to go to another ? Is one allowed to continually pass ( forsake ) one assembly or more to go to the same one time and again ?

Since the author is suggesting not to forsake the asssemblies as some are , in what manner *are* they forsaking them ?

None of these questions are answered in the text . It is not a command .
Great post!

I also do not view it as a command, but maybe more of highly recommended "suggestion", as the author is not God Himself, but more of a messenger from Him to the people, much like Jesus was.

Revelation 22:16 "I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies;
I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!
 
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New_Wineskin

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Great post!

I also do not view it as a command, but maybe more of highly recommended "suggestion", as the author is not God Himself, but more of a messenger from Him to the people, much like Jesus was.

Revelation 22:16 "I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies;
I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!
Yes . Very good . That is how I look at all of the Scriptures ... suggestions and cautions for our journey with Him . :)
 
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bugkiller

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Hebrews has a couple of main topics before that passage . In light of those topics , the author was not presenting a command for maintaining salvation . I would also say that most of those quoting that passage violate it on a routine basis . How many will forsake assemblies of believers as they travel to the assembly they want ?

I would also say that a command would have as a necessity a detailed account of how to observe that command . In this case , how often would one attend these assemblies to obtain enough points for salvation ? What is contained in the assemblies ? What may not be contained in the assemblies ? What is the punishment for not attending ? If there are more than one assembly in a certain radius from "home" , is one commanded to go to all of them ? Is one allowed to pass ( forsake ) one assembly to go to another ? Is one allowed to continually pass ( forsake ) one assembly or more to go to the same one time and again ?

Since the author is suggesting not to forsake the asssemblies as some are , in what manner *are* they forsaking them ?

None of these questions are answered in the text . It is not a command .
I would like to know what the purpose of assembling together is? Is it the same today as it was then? It that indeed what happens in most religious assemblies these days?

bugkiller
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus Great post!

I also do not view it as a command, but maybe more of highly recommended "suggestion", as the author is not God Himself, but more of a messenger from Him to the people, much like Jesus was.

Revelation 22:16 "I, Jesus did send my messenger to testify to you these things concerning the assemblies;
I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!
Yes . Very good . That is how I look at all of the Scriptures ... suggestions and cautions for our journey with Him . :)
:)
Matthew 5 is a good read on that.

Notice what Jesus tells these people. Is He commanding them or just changing the rules of "legalism" that the Jews of today still observe?.

YoungLT) Matt 5:21 `Ye heard that it was said to the ancients: Thou shalt not kill, and whoever may kill shall be in danger of the judgment;
22 but I--I say to you, that every one who is angry at his brother without cause, shall be in danger of the judgment, and whoever may say to his brother, Empty fellow! shall be in danger of the sanhedrim, and whoever may say, Rebel! shall be in danger of the gehenna of the fire.
 
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New_Wineskin

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I would like to know what the purpose of assembling together is? Is it the same today as it was then? It that indeed what happens in most religious assemblies these days?

bugkiller
I doubt that it was anything like the veriety of religious gatherings of today . They were more of a family . I would think that they would have been the same as when Jesus was with them . It is about relationship .
 
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New_Wineskin

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:)
Matthew 5 is a good read on that.

Notice what Jesus tells these people. Is He commanding them or just changing the rules of "legalism" that the Jews of today still observe?.

YoungLT) Matt 5:21 `Ye heard that it was said to the ancients: Thou shalt not kill, and whoever may kill shall be in danger of the judgment;
22 but I--I say to you, that every one who is angry at his brother without cause, shall be in danger of the judgment, and whoever may say to his brother, Empty fellow! shall be in danger of the sanhedrim, and whoever may say, Rebel! shall be in danger of the gehenna of the fire.
Absolutely . Combine that with Jesus saying to obey *His* commandments . It seperates what He says to the individual from what was written for the masses .

And , not just to the Jews ( who are far more merciful with the Law ) but the legalism of the many who preach the Law in its various forms and calling it a part of Christianity .
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Lysimachus

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You emphasize the pagan background of Justin Martyr. Luke and a number of other person confirmed as Christians and as saints in the New Testament were born and raised as pagans. The posthumous surname of Martyr was conferred on Justin because he was a martyr to the Christian faith when Marcus Aurelius was Emperor.


On the possibility that statements attributed to Justin Martyr could be forgeries, or mis-attributed, try this.


Encarta under Justin Maryr:


“The books that are ascribed to Justin with certainty are the two Apologies for the Christians, which comprise an erudite defense of Christians against charges of atheism and sedition in the Roman state...”
© 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.


The section that I quoted is from the First Apology of Justin Martyr, “ascribed ...with certainty”.


*


*

Justin may have been a sincere man at heart, but that does not change the fact that he studied philosophy at the temple of Zeno. While he was a true Christian at heart, he was misguided by his Pagan background because the disciples were no longer living, and his pagan background tainted his writings. Read the book "Fathers of the Catholic Church" by E.J. Waggoner and learn a thing or two about the background of these Church Fathers. Luke had direct fellowship with the disciples of Jesus.

Many of these Church Fathers even constantly appealed to the Psuedepigraphal writings. They were the "architects" of the Catholic Church. They were living "during" the time of the "great apostasy" or "falling away" of the Church predicted by Paul himself in 2 Thess. 2. Sunday keeping and a rejection of God's Holy Sabbath was one of the many "fruits" of this apostasy.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Justin may have been a sincere man at heart, but that does not change the fact that he studied philosophy at the temple of Zeno. While he was a true Christian at heart, he was misguided by his Pagan background because the disciples were no longer living, and his pagan background tainted his writings. Read the book "Fathers of the Catholic Church" by E.J. Waggoner and learn a thing or two about the background of these Church Fathers. Luke had direct fellowship with the disciples of Jesus.

Many of these Church Fathers even constantly appealed to the Psuedepigraphal writings. They were the "architects" of the Catholic Church. They were living "during" the time of the "great apostasy" or "falling away" of the Church predicted by Paul himself in 2 Thess. 2. Sunday keeping and a rejection of God's Holy Sabbath was one of the many "fruits" of this apostasy.
Spanking the RCC I see. Get off yer high horse :p

You can discuss the ECFs over on this board :)

http://www.christianforums.com/f84/
Christian History The forum to discuss the history of the Christian church.
 
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Lysimachus

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The point is, Justin Martyr does not jibe with the scriptures concerning Sunday. Like 23:56 is unequivocally clear that the Sabbath was kept according to the commandment after Christ had already died on Friday the day before, and it is the death of the testator that seals a covenant, and nothing can be added or subtracted from that covenant. Sunday would have been added "3 days too late". But according to Luke, resting on the Sabbath was "according to the commandment" after the New Covenant was in place.

Justin Martyr seems to have forgotten this, despite his sincerity.

We stand on the Word of God alone.
 
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