Where does the atheist/humanist get their morality from?

Skavau

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No it doesn't have anything to say about morality. This doesn't mean it won't be used for such purposes. The 'struggle' for survival eventually produces Mein Kamf (my struggle).
That something might be manipulated against its goals to be used maliciously as something else says little about it and its veracity.

Also, your understanding of Hitler's Mein Kampf is not quite there.

Article said:
Had ICR made even a cursory reading of Mein Kampf, they would have seen a quite different source for Hitler's racist inspiration than the one they would have us believe. White Aryans, Hitler writes, are the special creations of God, the "highest image of the Lord", put here specifically to rule over the "subhuman" races: "Human culture and civilization on this continent are inseparably bound up with the presence of the Aryan. If he dies out or declines, the dark veils of an age without culture will again descend on this globe. The undermining of the existence of human culture by the destruction of its bearer seems in the eyes of a folkish philosophy the most execrable crime. Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent Creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise." (all quotes from Hitler, Mein Kampf, online version) Actions which aid the "subhumans" at the expense of the Aryan master race, Hitler declared, were an offense against God: " It is a sin against the will of the Eternal Creator if His most gifted beings by the hundreds and hundreds of thousands are allowed to degenerate in the present proletarian morass, while Hottentots and Zulu Kaffirs are trained for intellectual professions."
 
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Eudaimonist

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Social Darwinism is the inevitable result of the Theory (incorrect I might add) of Evolution.

No, it was not, any more than nuclear weapons were the inevitable result of Einstein's Theory of Evolution, or the guided missile was the inevitable result of Newtonian mechanics.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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spiritualwarrior77

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That something might be manipulated against its goals to be used maliciously as something else says little about it and its veracity.

Also, your understanding of Hitler's Mein Kampf is not quite there.

My posting at post #14 gives more info about where I understand Hitler as coming from. He was an occultist, very much influenced by Theosophy which taught that humanity was evolving through seven 'root races'. The Aryan race was the fifth (the Atlanteans the fourth). It was (and is) based on the theory of evolution and used it to justify racism and genocide.
 
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Skavau

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My posting at post #14 gives more info about where I understand Hitler as coming from. He was an occultist, very much influenced by Theosophy which taught that humanity was evolving through seven 'root races'. The Aryan race was the fifth (the Atlanteans the fourth). It was (and is) based on the theory of evolution and used it to justify racism and genocide.
So Hitler was an occultist, influenced by theosophy and a raving racist and presumably believed in the Atlanteans and yet everything he did was based on the theory of evolution.

Say WHAT?
 
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spiritualwarrior77

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No, it was not, any more than nuclear weapons were the inevitable result of Einstein's Theory of Evolution, or the guided missile was the inevitable result of Newtonian mechanics.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Given the 'heart of man', nuclear weapons are an inevitable result of Einstein's Theory of Relativity as are guided missiles, Newtonian mechanics.
 
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spiritualwarrior77

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So Hitler was an occultist, influenced by theosophy and a raving racist and presumably believed in the Atlanteans and yet everything he did was based on the theory of evolution.

Say WHAT?

Theosophy's 'root race' theories could not exist without the theory of evolution. It teaches (as does the New Age) that humanity is evolving spiritually toward 'god-hood'. Theosophy would not have become so popular without Darwin.

In answer to your question... yes, everything he did was based on the theory of evolution.
 
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Skavau

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Theosophy's 'root race' theories could not exist without the theory of evolution. It teaches (as does the New Age) that humanity is evolving spiritually toward 'god-hood'. Theosophy would not have become so popular without Darwin.

In answer to your question... yes, everything he did was based on the theory of evolution.
Of course, since evolution has nothing and had never had anything whatsoever to do with "humanity evolving spiritually toward god-hood" your aclaim that he did everything based on evolution is incorrect based on your own argument.
 
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Skavau

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Given the 'heart of man', nuclear weapons are an inevitable result of Einstein's Theory of Relativity as are guided missiles, Newtonian mechanics.
Okay. But that man used Einstein's Theory of Relativity for evil or has nothing to do with the actual theory itself. This is to say the same for evolution. Suppose we accept your claim at face-value about Hitler and evolution. So what? What does that have to do with us? What does that have to do with the actual theory itself?

Just not sure where even without being contested you were even going with this.
 
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quatona

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Darwinism = survival of the fittest.
The 'fittest' (those stronger, more powerful, wealthier etc) are justified to maintain their position under social Darwinism.
This is a non-sequitur in the same way that concluding from gravity that we should drop everything.
Keyterms: descriptive vs. prescriptive.
Hitler used his Darwinism (and Theosophy) to justify his 'race theory' for eg.
Why do you pick Hitler of all for your authority in these matters?
The actual question is: Was his reasoning sound?
 
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quatona

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Even if - for argument´s sake - we would accept for a moment the fallacy that atheism=evolution theory, and even if we would accept for a moment the fallacy that social Darwinism follows from evolution theory (i.e. that there´s no difference between descriptions and prescriptions), all this remains still an argument from consequence: you are shooting the messenger.
 
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spiritualwarrior77

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Even if - for argument´s sake - we would accept for a moment the fallacy that atheism=evolution theory, and even if we would accept for a moment the fallacy that social Darwinism follows from evolution theory (i.e. that there´s no difference between descriptions and prescriptions), all this remains still an argument from consequence: you are shooting the messenger.

OK. The point is, evolution, humanism, atheism etc. can never and will never and has never produced a harmonious society.

A society built on Christian ethics will.

Christianity has plenty to say about how to treat each other. Humanism doesn't because it has no authority to do so. If anyone can find a piece of humanist advice on how to build a better society (one that works) I would be keen to read it!
 
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Skavau

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OK. The point is, evolution, humanism, atheism etc. can never and will never and has never produced a harmonious society.
Can you explain most of Western Europe? Nations such as Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark?

A society built on Christian ethics will.
Define a society that can only be based on "Christian ethics".

Christianity has plenty to say about how to treat each other. Humanism doesn't because it has no authority to do so. If anyone can find a piece of humanist advice on how to build a better society (one that works) I would be keen to read it!
Christianity has no authority to me. I don't accept its claims of divinity. Why should it mean anything to me?
 
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spiritualwarrior77

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Can you explain most of Western Europe? Nations such as Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark?

Remember this guy?
Anders-Behring-Breivik-008.jpg


Scandinavia (like the rest of Europe) is a time-bomb waiting to go off. Any 'harmony' you now perceive will quickly disappear once the SHTF (and it will!)


Define a society that can only be based on "Christian ethics".

A society that doesn't murder unborn children. A society that abhors violence in the media. A society that looks after it's poor. A society that respects the life of every human being. A society that doesn't drench it's citizens in inappropriate content and objectifies women. A society that doesn't attack other countries. A society that teaches values such as making peace with your enemies, being kind to others, loving your neighbour, helping the poor, sick, elderly etc.
 
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quatona

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OK. The point is, evolution, humanism, atheism etc. can never and will never and has never produced a harmonious society.

A society built on Christian ethics will.

Christianity has plenty to say about how to treat each other. Humanism doesn't because it has no authority to do so. If anyone can find a piece of humanist advice on how to build a better society (one that works) I would be keen to read it!
Simply repeating this combination of three fallacies doesn´t make it any more convincing. Neither does adding a couple of wild assertions.
 
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spiritualwarrior77

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Define a society that can only be based on "Christian ethics".

Paul's advice to the Roman church on how to behave. I don't hear his knid of advice coming from atheist/humanists!

Romans 12:9-21
9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11 Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12 Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13 Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.

14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.[a] Do not be conceited.

17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:

“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[c]
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
 
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mzungu

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OK. The point is, evolution, humanism, atheism etc. can never and will never and has never produced a harmonious society.

A society built on Christian ethics will.

Christianity has plenty to say about how to treat each other. Humanism doesn't because it has no authority to do so. If anyone can find a piece of humanist advice on how to build a better society (one that works) I would be keen to read it!
Interesting; Do you adhere in total to every command the Bible dictates to you? Even today Christians still burn women alive for sorcery, most American Christians are in favour of the death penalty, etc.

Religions may dictate what is moral and what is not but it is the societies that choose to accept the moral codes that it deems to be in line with their ethos.

You do realise that killing disobedient children and killing witches are commanded by the Bible?

The great enemy of peace and love is FUNDAMENTALISM! Humanists are more in line with what Jesus preached than with any Bible thumping fundamentalist.
 
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spiritualwarrior77

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Interesting; Do you adhere in total every command the Bible dictates to you? Even today Christians still burn women alive for sorcery, most American Christians are in favour of the death penalty, etc.

Religions may dictate what is moral and what is not but it is the societies that choose to accept the moral codes that it deems to be in line with their ethos.

You do realise that killing disobedient children and killing witches are commanded by the Bible?

The great enemy of peace and love is FUNDAMENTALISM! Humanists are more in line with what Jesus preached than with any Bible thumping fundamentalist.

Christ came to fulfil and end the 'law'. Referring to Old Testament law is irrelevant.

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."—Romans 10:4.
 
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Eudaimonist

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Given the 'heart of man', nuclear weapons are an inevitable result of Einstein's Theory of Relativity as are guided missiles, Newtonian mechanics.

Given the 'heart of man', maybe. But not given the theories.

What you are doing is like suggesting that just because we correctly understand that our right arms can deliver lethal force, then we must blame that knowledge on the invention of clubs and swords. Knowledge of reality somehow becomes our enemy, even though we could choose to use it for good! You are taking a pro-ignorance stance. Mindlessness is your ideal.

It is absurd to blame Darwinism on the ethical misuses people may give to that information.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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