Priest gets heat for denying lesbian Communion at mother's funeral

Michie

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Jesus said to go & sin no more.

This priest could have known that this was not the case. Hence his actions as the Church instructs.

I stand with the priest on this issue as I think he knew full well what he was doing & why.

No priest wants to do this.
 
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Tigg

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I find it incrediby strange how everyone seems to side with this woman first. Do you think the priest would have taken this hard road if he did not feel he was obeying what the Church teaches about the Eucharist?

Seriously?

He would had been lauded if he just gave it to her.

Where do our loyalities lie anyway? I'm starting to wonder.

So just give it to her to her own destruction with full knowledge?

How loving.

and:

"If we take on that sort of attitude then we should just have open communion for all. Ditch a lot of our teachings &
shut down the confessional." - by Michie

I am behind this Priest who did exactly what he should of done, not behind a woman who did what she did to make a mockery of Communion and the Priest. May God make many more Priests who stand up for the right and don't wishy-washy away Church teaching. It takes bravery and true grit to stand up for the right. This Priest has that. God bless him. :crossrc:
 
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Michie

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and:

"If we take on that sort of attitude then we should just have open communion for all. Ditch a lot of our teachings &
shut down the confessional." - by Michie

I am behind this Priest who did exactly what he should of done, not behind a woman who did what she did to make a mockery of Communion and the Priest. May God make many more Priests who stand up for the right and don't wishy-washy away Church teaching. It takes bravery and true grit to stand up for the right. This Priest has that. God bless him. :crossrc:
Amen.
 
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Michie

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Just days after Maryland's state legislature passed same-sex "marriage," the Washington Post trumpeted on its front page how a "deep in grief" woman in a long-term lesbian relationship had been denied Communion by a Catholic priest during her mother's funeral in Gaithersburg, Maryland. The woman accused the cleric of playing "politics...and you will pay dearly on the day of judgment for judging me."

It took writer Michelle Boorstein seven paragraphs to finally give a statement from a representative of the Archdiocese of Washington, who criticized the pastoral approach of the priest, but not necessarily his defense of Catholic teaching, which states that those living in mortal sin cannot approach the Eucharist. It took the journalist another four paragraphs to reproduce a comment defending the priest's actions from an anonymous blogger.

CBS's local affiliate in DC, WUSA9, also covered the controversy, but gave a completely one-sided story about the lesbian, supposedly a "lifelong Catholic and former Catholic school teacher" named Barbara Johnson, who is also calling for the removal of the cleric, Father Marcel Guarnizo, from parish life. In his write-up summarizing their on-air story, writer Matt Jablow omitted Johnson's call for Father Gurnizo's removal.

Boorstein front-loaded the first six paragraphs of her article, titled "Seeking Communion, finding rejection" on the front page (titled differently online), with a florid and sympathetic account of Johnson's mother's funeral, and included her fire-and-brimstone condemnation of the priest who officiated. A misleading subtitle, "During mother's funeral service in Md., lesbian is told by priest her orientation is a sin," accompanied the article, though the writer noted that Father Guarnizo took issue with her relationship specifically. Boorstein also disclosed that Johnson's lesbian "partner of 20 years" was present at the funeral:
communionrejection_main.jpg


Deep in grief, Barbara Johnson stood first in the line for Communion at her mother's funeral Saturday morning. But the priest in front of her immediately made it clear that she would not receive the sacramental bread and wine.

Johnson, an art-studio owner from the District, had come to St. John Neumann Catholic Church in Gaithersburg with her lesbian partner. The Rev. Marcel Guarnizo had learned of their relationship just before the service.

"He put his hand over the body of Christ and looked at me and said, 'I can't give you Communion because you live with a woman, and in the eyes of the church, that is a sin,'" she recalled Tuesday.

She reacted with stunned silence. Her anger and outrage have now led her and members of her family to demand that Guarnizo be removed from his ministry.

Family members said the priest left the altar while Johnson, 51, was delivering a eulogy and did not attend the burial or find another priest to be there.

"You brought your politics, not your God into that Church yesterday, and you will pay dearly on the day of judgment for judging me," she wrote in a letter to Guarnizo. "I will pray for your soul, but first I will do everything in my power to see that you are removed from parish life so that you will not be permitted to harm any more families."

Though the Washington Post journalist did indirectly point out the central Catholic belief that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ, through her quote of Johnson in the third paragraph, she didn't explain this belief in her article, even downplaying it as "sacramental bread and wine." The anonymous pro-Father Guarnizo blogger cited Canon 915 in the Code of Canon Law for the Catholic Church, which states that "those...obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion." Johnson certainly is someone "persevering in manifest grave sin," given her admitted 20-year relationship with another woman, but Boorstein didn't explain what Canon 915 was.

More fundamentally, the eleventh chapter of St. Paul's First Letter to the Corinthians makes it clear that "he that eateth and drinketh [the Eucharist] unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord." It doesn't get more clear than that in Catholic dogma, and by his action, Father Guarnizo was sparing her from the grave sin of sacrilege.




Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2012/02/29/priest-denying-communion-active-lesbian-somehow-front-page-news-wapo#ixzz1oOPgg0zc
 
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WarriorAngel

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Michie

he has the right to guard the chalice - but were you there to hear what was said to him ?

Again - we do not know with 100% certainty as NONE of us were there at the time

Then why do you say we do not know...? Arent we or shouldnt we trust the priests who MUST make this type of discernment?

I find it incrediby strange how everyone seems to side with this woman first. Do you think the priest would have taken this hard road if he did not feel he was obeying what the Church teaches about the Eucharist?

Seriously?

He would had been lauded if he just gave it to her.

Where do our loyalities lie anyway? I'm starting to wonder.

So just give it to her to her own destruction with full knowledge?

How loving.
I wonder too...why everyone is siding with her first.
NO - I'm not on anyone's side

I do NOT know the facts any more than anyone else who was not there at the time .

If I do not KNOW with 100% certainty then I may not judge .

Do you know with 100% certainty that this woman is living with her lover in an active sexual relationship ? Have you observed their habits in the privacy of their bedroom/s ?

I am responsible for my behaviour and I cannot and will not judge her because I do not know .

For all I know she has confessed this sin

I repeat none of us were there , none of us have 100% complete knowledge about this therefore we should not make a judgement - leave this one to God - He and He alone is our judge.

We will have to stand before Him one day and wait for Him to tell us whether we may enter or not .

WHY must you know the facts..? A priest should be innocent first before proven guilty of doing this without a good reason.

IF none of us were there - why does she get the sympathy? I mean i trust the priest until it is proven otherwise.

He had to have known mitigating circumstances to believe as strongly as he did to protect the Eucharist...and her.
 
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WarriorAngel

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And furthermore; none us of really wanted to know - but SHE brought this out into the public arena to possibly set up the Church and that priest.
NO one was there - and no one else brought it out in public either - she did.

So if she is going live with it by making deep and hurtful criticism of the priest for all the gay community to know - i will stand behind the priest and the Church....it's the way we should do it until he is proven otherwise guilty of misjudging the situation.

Otherwise, i seriously could care less about her life choices... because she appears adamant about living that way. I could be wrong - BUT why would anyone chaste run to the LGBT community to make such a scandal?
 
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WarriorAngel

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Just days after Maryland's state legislature passed same-sex "marriage," the Washington Post trumpeted on its front page how a "deep in grief" woman in a long-term lesbian relationship had been denied Communion by a Catholic priest during her mother's funeral in Gaithersburg, Maryland. The woman accused the cleric of playing "politics...and you will pay dearly on the day of judgment for judging me."

It took writer Michelle Boorstein seven paragraphs to finally give a statement from a representative of the Archdiocese of Washington, who criticized the pastoral approach of the priest, but not necessarily his defense of Catholic teaching, which states that those living in mortal sin cannot approach the Eucharist. It took the journalist another four paragraphs to reproduce a comment defending the priest's actions from an anonymous blogger.

CBS's local affiliate in DC, WUSA9, also covered the controversy, but gave a completely one-sided story about the lesbian, supposedly a "lifelong Catholic and former Catholic school teacher" named Barbara Johnson, who is also calling for the removal of the cleric, Father Marcel Guarnizo, from parish life. In his write-up summarizing their on-air story, writer Matt Jablow omitted Johnson's call for Father Gurnizo's removal.

Boorstein front-loaded the first six paragraphs of her article, titled "Seeking Communion, finding rejection" on the front page (titled differently online), with a florid and sympathetic account of Johnson's mother's funeral, and included her fire-and-brimstone condemnation of the priest who officiated. A misleading subtitle, "During mother's funeral service in Md., lesbian is told by priest her orientation is a sin," accompanied the article, though the writer noted that Father Guarnizo took issue with her relationship specifically. Boorstein also disclosed that Johnson's lesbian "partner of 20 years" was present at the funeral:
communionrejection_main.jpg


Deep in grief, Barbara Johnson stood first in the line for Communion at her mother's funeral Saturday morning. But the priest in front of her immediately made it clear that she would not receive the sacramental bread and wine.

Johnson, an art-studio owner from the District, had come to St. John Neumann Catholic Church in Gaithersburg with her lesbian partner. The Rev. Marcel Guarnizo had learned of their relationship just before the service.

"He put his hand over the body of Christ and looked at me and said, 'I can't give you Communion because you live with a woman, and in the eyes of the church, that is a sin,'" she recalled Tuesday.

She reacted with stunned silence. Her anger and outrage have now led her and members of her family to demand that Guarnizo be removed from his ministry.

Family members said the priest left the altar while Johnson, 51, was delivering a eulogy and did not attend the burial or find another priest to be there.

"You brought your politics, not your God into that Church yesterday, and you will pay dearly on the day of judgment for judging me," she wrote in a letter to Guarnizo. "I will pray for your soul, but first I will do everything in my power to see that you are removed from parish life so that you will not be permitted to harm any more families."

Though the Washington Post journalist did indirectly point out the central Catholic belief that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ, through her quote of Johnson in the third paragraph, she didn't explain this belief in her article, even downplaying it as "sacramental bread and wine." The anonymous pro-Father Guarnizo blogger cited Canon 915 in the Code of Canon Law for the Catholic Church, which states that "those...obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion." Johnson certainly is someone "persevering in manifest grave sin," given her admitted 20-year relationship with another woman, but Boorstein didn't explain what Canon 915 was.

More fundamentally, the eleventh chapter of St. Paul's First Letter to the Corinthians makes it clear that "he that eateth and drinketh [the Eucharist] unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord." It doesn't get more clear than that in Catholic dogma, and by his action, Father Guarnizo was sparing her from the grave sin of sacrilege.




Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-balan/2012/02/29/priest-denying-communion-active-lesbian-somehow-front-page-news-wapo#ixzz1oOPgg0zc


The gay community is going to try to force itself on the Church - like so many other Churches in recent years.

No - you may not receive - if you are sexually active and living with your lover of 20 years.
And it does not take anyone who does not believe in unicorns to see the reality of this.

We dont need to go to the bedroom to know when someone is parading a sexual relationship - lover around in a priests face.

I am glad i dont know her because right now she makes me quite upset over her entire actions.

Lord have mercy and please help me.:crossrc:I get so frustrated over the abuses.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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And furthermore; none us of really wanted to know - but SHE brought this out into the public arena to possibly set up the Church and that priest.
NO one was there - and no one else brought it out in public either - she did.

So if she is going live with it by making deep and hurtful criticism of the priest for all the gay community to know - i will stand behind the priest and the Church....it's the way we should do it until he is proven otherwise guilty of misjudging the situation.

Otherwise, i seriously could care less about her life choices... because she appears adamant about living that way. I could be wrong - BUT why would anyone chaste run to the LGBT community to make such a scandal?

I agree that some of the gay community seems up in arms about this and that they look like they are looking for a fight with anyone for any reason. This type of reaction should not be supported but opposed. There is a right way to act on something and a bad way to react to something and I am seeing too many quick reactions and not enough well thought out actions with answers to still existing questions. Too many '?'s still and no need for all the '!'s.
 
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MikeK

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I find it incrediby strange how everyone seems to side with this woman first.

I find it incrediby strange that you equate not knowing the facts of the situation and witholding judgement as taking sides. It doesn't seem to me that anyone here is on this woman's side, we just don;t know enough to conclude that the Priest did the right thing in denying her the Eucharist. Maybe he did - but I don;t have enough knowledge of the situation to conclude that he did, and I don't think anyone else here does either.
 
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benedictaoo

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BUT you explain to me, because i am not getting this around my head - how she knew for a fact he denied her Communion for being gay IF she didnt make it known to him...?

But if she did make it known, WA, my love, Denying her Communion just for being gay is wrong but denying Communion if she went to him prior at anytime and said, "Look, I'm a Lesbian..." (gay is what we call men who are homosexual. Lesbian is what we call women who are Lesbian, they aren't homosexual. BTW. Calling women gay and homosexual has been bothering me because its not the correct terminology.)

anyway... the only way he would be with in his right to deny her is if she went to him previously and said, look, I'm a lesbian and I have been in this lesbian sexual relationship with my long time partner and I don't care what the Church says about it.

Then he would have no choice to deny her and if this is the case, then dang, why can't he just come out and say this is what happened?

It would end this making the Church look bad... wouldn't' you agree?

I have no clue what really happened and I can't really say that I give it any real thought. However, I do feel the priest and the bishop need to just say what really happened themselves, not through a source. that's what I think.

The real question for me is why do they think its best to remain silent and allow other people to speculate? I understand the church doesn't want to become a PR machine but this letting everyone else spin the story is not working out too good.
 
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benedictaoo

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I am going to study canon law for the 3rd year courses.

Let me say it again Mike, you are missing it.

The woman told the priest -

You can go study canon law, the CCC... heck you can go to Rome and study to become a nun... it will not change what is orthodox Catholicism and that would be if she went and told him she was a Lesbian, that is not what would justify him.

what would is if she went and said she was having a sexual thing going on and she is going to take Communion and everybody is going to like it.

We do not know what was said but if merely, its, I'm Lesbian... and I live with a partner and have been for years... that is really not enough for him to go on assuming she is having sex, even if she is.

So, you is who is missing it.

More then likely she is a sexual active Lesbian.. but unless she said exactly that and refused to confess and really repent- priest should not have denied her but warned her that if you are having sex, don't take ... it all hangs on what exactly did she say to him.

just saying, i'm lesbian, is not enough because its not a sin to be a lesbian. Its a sin to be a Lesbian having sex.
 
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Veritas

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You can go study canon law, the CCC... heck you can go to Rome and study to become a nun... it will not change what is orthodox Catholicism and that would be if she went and told him she was a Lesbian, that is not what would justify him.

what would is if she went and said she was having a sexual thing going on and she is going to take Communion and everybody is going to like it.

We do not know what was said but if merely, its, I'm Lesbian... and I live with a partner and have been for years... that is really not enough for him to go on assuming she is having sex, even if she is.

So, you is who is missing it.

More then likely she is a sexual active Lesbian.. but unless she said exactly that and refused to confess and really repent- priest should not have denied her but warned her that if you are having sex, don't take ... it all hangs on what exactly did she say to him.

just saying, i'm lesbian, is not enough because its not a sin to be a lesbian. Its a sin to be a Lesbian having sex.

According to the article, the priest only learned of her orientation just before the Mass. There is NO indication that he had any information as to the entire nature of the relationship between the daughter and her partner. He made a judgement when he said that he couldn't give her Communion based on the fact she was living with a woman! What? That's all he knew at the time and still denied her Communion? That's the problem I have. I don't know that the priest needs to be removed from the pulpit, but he does need to better understand the actual teachings. I say, when in doubt, give the Host. Let God be God and take care of the rest.

I went to a wedding once at a Catholic Church for a collegue of mine. The priest announced before Communion that any Christian by baptism could come forward. Now that is scandalous!
 
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WarriorAngel

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But if she did make it known, WA, my love, Denying her Communion just for being gay is wrong but denying Communion if she went to him prior at anytime and said, "Look, I'm a Lesbian..." (gay is what we call men who are homosexual. Lesbian is what we call women who are Lesbian, they aren't homosexual. BTW. Calling women gay and homosexual has been bothering me because its not the correct terminology.)

anyway... the only way he would be with in his right to deny her is if she went to him previously and said, look, I'm a lesbian and I have been in this lesbian sexual relationship with my long time partner and I don't care what the Church says about it.

Then he would have no choice to deny her and if this is the case, then dang, why can't he just come out and say this is what happened?

It would end this making the Church look bad... wouldn't' you agree?

I have no clue what really happened and I can't really say that I give it any real thought. However, I do feel the priest and the bishop need to just say what really happened themselves, not through a source. that's what I think.

The real question for me is why do they think its best to remain silent and allow other people to speculate? I understand the church doesn't want to become a PR machine but this letting everyone else spin the story is not working out too good.

NO the priest cant win.

IF he says she told him she was gay and living with her lover - it looks like he is talking about something that should remain in the pastoral setting.

Either way - she is going to twist a knife into him. She set it up this way.

AND see the part that has been said many times now - LOVER - LOVER means they are active...so he wasnt with holding because she is gay - BUT because she said she has a LOVER.... See the word LOVER brings in a whole new context. It means sexually active to have a LOVER.

SO you can tell me 1000 times and you probably have byu now - that it doesnt matter if someone is gay they are ok in the Churches eye - big flippin whoop Bene - no one here is talking about that...so get over it already.

SHE HAS A LOVER..... thats is another thing altogether.


SHE said she has A LOVER.
So she can be told she cannot receive.

NOR is she [practicing] CATHOLIC. That small tid bit - that no one seems to understand.

EVEN if she wanted to be Catholic she is excommunicated by her lifestyle and choice of living in MORTAL SIN.
 
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WarriorAngel

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According to the article, the priest only learned of her orientation just before the Mass. There is NO indication that he had any information as to the entire nature of the relationship between the daughter and her partner. He made a judgement when he said that he couldn't give her Communion based on the fact she was living with a woman! What? That's all he knew at the time and still denied her Communion? That's the problem I have. I don't know that the priest needs to be removed from the pulpit, but he does need to better understand the actual teachings. I say, when in doubt, give the Host. Let God be God and take care of the rest.

I went to a wedding once at a Catholic Church for a collegue of mine. The priest announced before Communion that any Christian by baptism could come forward. Now that is scandalous!


Not that i want to say this as tho i am an expert but i did take classes on the Catechism...
AND no one in mortal sin if it comes to the attention of a priest may receive the Eucharist.



Can. 915 Those upon whom the penalty of excommunication or interdict has been imposed or declared, and others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin, are not to be admitted to holy communion.


Can. 916 Anyone who is conscious of grave sin may not celebrate Mass or receive the Body of the Lord without previously having been to sacramental confession, unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition, which includes the resolve go to confession as soon as possible. to



Catechism


1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131
1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.



[I want to add the Catechism goes into detail each sin which is defined under each Commandment]



1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.




Mortal sin means we are not in His friendship and may not receive.
This is not a new teaching - it has been here since the beginning.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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Lover: a person with whom one has sexual relations. (one definition from merriman-webster).

Even if one just did confession and then told you their unmarried friend is their lover, wouldn't that imply the intent of having sexual relations with that person? If so, would that affect any confession recently given?

This is just an objective question and not having to do with this case, to see how we would answer it.
 
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MikeK

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The whole "lover" statement comes from an anonymous person who claims to have overheard the conversation. WA, I don't know why you keep stating things like "she said she has a lover" as fact. This is an example of the shameful behavior I'm talking about.
 
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MikeK

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Lover: a person with whom one has sexual relations. (one definition from merriman-webster).

Even if one just did confession and then told you their unmarried friend is their lover, wouldn't that imply the intent of having sexual relations with that person?.

Not necessarily, note the /other/ definitions of lover That Merriam Webster provides. We should be very cautious when judging the sinfulness of others. Far better to err on the side of charity than rash judgement.
 
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JacktheCatholic

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Not necessarily, note the /other/ definitions of lover That Merriam Webster provides. We should be very cautious when judging the sinfulness of others. Far better to err on the side of charity than rash judgement.

Oh, I agree. I think people in today's world are too quick to find someone guilty and even before a trial, I did state "one" definition to imply that there are others. But, in the scenario I was asking about it was to mean as someone having sexual relations.
 
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