Deception - The Message Bible

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ABlessedAnomaly

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The big deal is this forum is a haven where we come to not be bashed and attacked for our beliefs.
With respect to translations, there are many conspiracy theories about the newer ones, mainly against the NIV and mainly by the nut-case KJV only crowd. The truth is, the KJV itself is rife with errors, which has been documented, and even if it weren't, it has long past its time of relevance to modern language usage.
Personally, I think we are frustrating the Holy Spirit when we try to get people to use language and idioms totally unfamiliar to them. This is taking the Gospel out of the hands of the common people to whom it was sent. I can tell you that after many years of ministering to children, elderly, and inmates, that there is nothing more frustrating than trying to teach about the "lust of concupiscence" or the "superfluity of naughtiness" or doing that "which was meat."
I consider that abundance of translations and language tools and commentaries a blessing of the Lord to give us a system of check and balances on interpretation and to help open our understanding (which, by the way, the Message Bible excels at).
I've actually decided to acquiece on this subject.

While there may be "meat" to talk about in regards to The Message bible and any New Age relationship in it, I don't think the Word/Faith forum is the place to discuss this topic, as it is not directly Word/Faith.

Along with the fact that the site the information comes from is itself, and is related to others, a site that is anti-WoF, I don't think we should promote it in any manner. Yes, we are all brothers and we all start with a belief that Jesus is Lord; but when the doctrines diverge it gets nasty. And I for one will not promote that we get information that divides the body from that site, when other information on the site divides even us (WoF) from them.
 
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KM Richards

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The truth is, the KJV itself is rife with errors, which has been documented, and even if it weren't, it has long past its time of relevance to modern language usage.

It actually has fewer errors than any other translation...

"Past its time of relevance"...excellent...now the devil has a great excuse to create new translations to take the Church in to massive error all because we don't like the thees and the thous, which aren't a problem at all.

The problem with these newfangledy translations it makes it much harder to look at them and then go to a Greek or Hebrew dictionary to dig deeper...but, many aren't interested in any of that, including many in Full Gospel circles.

I mean, Bible study...who does that anymore???




no Bible translation is inspired. All of them have been put together by men. The only perfect translation of Scripture is what God Himself actually revealed to the apostles and prophets.

Actually, that cannot be true...if it is, God is a liar and so is Jesus.

2 Peter 1:20,21
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


Revelation 19:10
...for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

2 Peter 1:20,21 is referring to the Word of God...need scripture on Jesus being the Word???
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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Sorry...they have some very good points concerning the Message book.
I'm sure there is a forum for such discussion on CF. Word of Faith is for Word of Faith, not general studies of cults or cult-like activity (if there is any in this case).

Are they unbelievers over there at av whatever dot org? If they are believers, then we are to not attack them even if they attack us (did not Jesus have some stuff to say 'bout that??? Yes...He did)
Not the point. This forum is for Word Faith discussions.

As far as attacking word of faith...who cares??? Everybody attacks word of faith, so why is that any cause for concern?
We care. This is a safe house against any such attacks. This is why I have to be firm in backing away from these discussions and warning agaisnt them in this house.

... and if you mention anything about hard times you'll get a "get thee behind me satan" really quick (not sure why anybody would want satan folloawing around behind them, oh well).
That's funny. ^_^

I know this is a shocker to those in the wof community...
Comments like this worry me. You talk like you stand on the outside looking in. :confused: Most of your posting is very spirit filled; but sometimes you seem to stand outside the door.

On the subject of the Message book...the av org crowd has it right...I was listening to a new age expert (a Christian minister that got saved from the new age deal years ago) on the SonLife Network last night (I know, I know...that's Jimmy Swaggert's channel...eeek), which is how I found out about the Message book.
Again, not arguing the right or wrong of the book. This is not the forum for this discussion. It does not have a Word of Faith DIRECT relationship.

On this subject, Jimmy Swaggert...
Jimmy is anti-WoF.

... and av org is absolutely correct...
I'm sure they are right about a lot of biblical things; but they are anti-WoF. They don't belong here. There are forums on CF where they would be more appropriate (I would think) but not here.

This is a "take the good, spit out the bad" situation, and unless you are prepared to claim absolute 100% perfection of all things in your life...you'll have to admit that some of the stuff you believe and do isn't right...which makes you just like other Christians.
Yes, I don't claim 100% perfection. And "eating the meat and spitting out the bones" is common fare. But this forum...yadda yadda yadda.

...repentance is in order on this one, and that includes Kenneth Copeland...if he even knows about this!
On this subject, you showed me an anti-WoF site that names Copeland as an embracer. You did not show a Copeland site that endorses it. How do you know the anti-WoF site is truthful about WoF issues??

Wow, saying something against Copeland...is that blasphemy er somethin??? :confused:
Not at all. I don't toe the line with everything Copeland says. He is a human and prone to error. But he is one of the best out there. Again, the subject of The Message bible is better in some other forum than this one.

He's been my spiritual dad for over 20 years...now, I have to seriously re-think any involvement...
Hmmm. His enemy says something about him and you will re-think your interest in him? Very weak.

...btw, they have a nice display in Word Works Bookstore for the Message book!
What does that have to do with Cope?? :confused: Or Word of Faith?? :doh:
 
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KM Richards

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Comments like this worry me. You talk like you stand on the outside looking in. Most of your posting is very spirit filled; but sometimes you seem to stand outside the door.

I'm a Christian...it just so happens that what alot of people call "WOF" is actually scriptural, so if folks wanna tag me as wof, I guess they can...I'm simply seeking to do what God's Word says.


On this subject, you showed me an anti-WoF site that names Copeland as an embracer. You did not show a Copeland site that endorses it. How do you know the anti-WoF site is truthful about WoF issues??

If he doesn't promote this book...he is fully capable of having his attorneys stop anyone from saying he does, as he has done in the past when people say things about him that is not true, that could hurt his ministry.


Hmmm. His enemy says something about him and you will re-think your interest in him? Very weak.

New bible translation full of new age / occult, that is gay friendly, love mother earth friendly...No, it's Copeland that is weak!

I've heard him talk for years about the integrity of God's Word and he spoke once about throwing a particular translation in the trash because it had something in it that wasn't in the original text...and now he and Savelle promote this melding of scripture with new age / occult sayings....No, it's Copeland that is weak!

Either that, or he needs the money...something is certainly screwy in St Louie with this deal.
It just isn't the same old Copeland that would do a thing like this.

On the other hand, it's possible he doesn't even know about it...which is also troubling, for different reasons, if true.


What does that have to do with Cope?? Or Word of Faith??

Ah, "Word Works" is the bible store inside his church...Eagle Mountain International Church in Newark Texas!

Another reason to believe he has no problem with this book, eh?
 
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It actually has fewer errors than any other translation...

"Past its time of relevance"...excellent...now the devil has a great excuse to create new translations to take the Church in to massive error all because we don't like the thees and the thous, which aren't a problem at all.

The problem with these newfangledy translations it makes it much harder to look at them and then go to a Greek or Hebrew dictionary to dig deeper...but, many aren't interested in any of that, including many in Full Gospel circles.

I mean, Bible study...who does that anymore???






Actually, that cannot be true...if it is, God is a liar and so is Jesus.

2 Peter 1:20,21
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


Revelation 19:10
...for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

2 Peter 1:20,21 is referring to the Word of God...need scripture on Jesus being the Word???

I can see you've drank the Kool-aid on the KJV only doctrine. Do you know that some of those in that camp actually are so hung up on this, that they believe no legitimate translations existed prior to, or since 1611 and the "Authorized" version. By the way, it was authorized by King James and the church of England, not God Himself. Some in that camp also believe that other language groups need to learn English so that they can have access to the "true Word of God in the King James Version." Tell me your smarter than this.

I'm sorry, but the KJV has many errors, and is not the most accurate translation of the scriptures available. You are parroting the same old line about "newfangled" translations, as if they were the creation of some crazed maniac.

On my computer, I can view dozens of translations side by side, including all of the Greek and Hebrew texts. There are certain Greek manuscripts the KJV only crowd insist on, and I've got those too.
When I'm viewing a prominent english text, such as the NKJV, NIV, NASB, NRSV, ESV and a few others, I can hover my curser over a word or phrase and see the Greek words. Really, most anyone with a Bible program can do this. It isn't hard for an intelligent person to see how the 1611 version is in fact far out of date with modern usage of English, and it extends far beyond the "thees and thous."

The Message Bible is not the type of "translation" that one would expect to use as their only Bible. If you ever read any interviews with it's author, he admits as much himself. It is intended to open up the Bible and make it accessible to some people who may never be able to hack the archaic language of the KJV. Sometimes, it really hits the mark, other times, it misses the Greek or Hebrew broadly in my opinion.

The history of paraphrases such as the Living Bible and the Good News Bible is filled with thousands of testimonies of new believers who were blessed tremendously by these works (my first Bible was a Living Bible). In time, most gradually move on to a more literal version like the KJV, NASB etc. I don't believe it's helpful to demand that people read only a translation created in the middle ages.
 
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KM Richards

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The Message Bible is not the type of "translation" that one would expect to use as their only Bible.

Unfortunately...this "book" is being marketed to many, many young people as a legitimate BIBLE and they take it and read is as BIBLE...so they are being influenced away from what God actually said in original texts...to this watered down, one world religion, gay friendly, everybody is saved, garbage!

Yes, I learned from Copeland years ago that the KJV is the best, and his reasoning for it was because Greek / Hebrew dictionaries go with it hand in hand, which I found to work great so that's what I've been doing for years.

I've heard of the KJV only site before but haven't spent much time there at all other than to notice that it's almost like they think if you didn't get saved quoting from the King Jimmy...you might not even be saved! :D

I sometimes look at the Amplified, Young's Literal Translation, and a couple others in available in my Theophilos software...but this Message "bible" is pure bunk!

But...that's alright, I understand in the WOF community...we have better things to attend to than to let people know about a widely popular version of the Bible is in fact...changing what God said by adding to and taking away from God's Word! (funny, I always thought WOF people were sticklers for the integrity of God's Word...maybe some aren't...)

Throughout both Old and New Testaments, God forbids us to distort His Word. Additions and deletions are strictly forbidden in Scriptures like Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32, Proverbs 30:6, Galatians 1:8-9 and Revelation 22:19. Acts 17:11 exhorts us to learn from the Bereans who "examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."

Anywho...no more point in carrying on this conversation is there??? :confused:






.
 
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Deaver

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It actually has fewer errors than any other translation...

"Past its time of relevance"...excellent...now the devil has a great excuse to create new translations to take the Church in to massive error all because we don't like the thees and the thous, which aren't a problem at all.

The problem with these newfangledy translations it makes it much harder to look at them and then go to a Greek or Hebrew dictionary to dig deeper...but, many aren't interested in any of that, including many in Full Gospel circles.

I mean, Bible study...who does that anymore???






Actually, that cannot be true...if it is, God is a liar and so is Jesus.

2 Peter 1:20,21
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


Revelation 19:10
...for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

2 Peter 1:20,21 is referring to the Word of God...need scripture on Jesus being the Word???

Wow, you really missed my point. The original manuscripts are inspired, I absolutely believe that. However, all current translations or paraphrases are written by man.
 
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KM Richards

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The original manuscripts are inspired, I absolutely believe that. However, all current translations or paraphrases are written by man.

So, what do you read...the original transcripts???

This is why I rely on the Greek and Hebrew more than what the KJV says...
I also use the Greek and Hebrew Interlinear Bible which renders literally from the original text.

If God cannot put a good translation in our hands...then He's got problems...but, He doesn't, because He has provided a way for us to know exactly what He said and to know exactly how He thinks.

It's obvious that satan is now boldly attacking the written Word of God to inject confusion to God's people concerning what God said and what He didn't say....opening the door for satan to inject lies into what people think is God's Word....it's the same thing he did in the garden.

You'd think Christians would want to counter that...Doesn't seem like too many care about bad bibles goin round leading people astray...
 
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Deaver

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So, what do you read...the original transcripts???

No!

This is why I rely on the Greek and Hebrew more than what the KJV says...
I also use the Greek and Hebrew Interlinear Bible which renders literally from the original text.

Good for you. I too utilize the Greek and Interlinear Bible, I then compare it with various English translations. I only use a paraphrase for casual reading and a big picture look.

If God cannot put a good translation in our hands...then He's got problems...but, He doesn't, because He has provided a way for us to know exactly what He said and to know exactly how He thinks.

Yes for those things He wants known to us. Some things may never be known by us

It's obvious that satan is now boldly attacking the written Word of God to inject confusion to God's people concerning what God said and what He didn't say....opening the door for satan to inject lies into what people think is God's Word....it's the same thing he did in the garden.

You'd think Christians would want to counter that...Doesn't seem like too many care about bad bibles goin round leading people astray...

I agree with that, and that is too bad.
 
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KM Richards

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Some things may never be known by us

That viewpoint is not supported by the New Testament....

1 Corinthians 2:9-12
But as it is written, Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
But God has revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
For what man knows the things of a man, except the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.


Romans 8:32
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

God has no reason to hold back the things He paid an awesome price for us to have and know about...

My Bible teaches me that God is not holding back any information...
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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I'm a Christian...it just so happens that what alot of people call "WOF" is actually scriptural, so if folks wanna tag me as wof, I guess they can...I'm simply seeking to do what God's Word says.
I have no doubt you are a Christian and a spirit filled one at that.

The [my emphasis] bolded phrase above concerns me as a member of this forum. This forum is for Word of Faith. If you do not consider yourself Word of Faith then your icon is misleading. And secondly, one does not simply decide they are Word of Faith and then talk down about the leading teachers of the movement.

So I ask bluntly: are you Word of Faith?

I don't mind any of our disagreements about the tithe, about Adam, etc., etc. And I've seen agreement between us on many things. But the manner in which you are drawing Cope into this is misleading and disengenuous. You brought his name into The Message Bible topic FROM an anti-WoF site. The fact that EMIC bookstore might have the book on its shelves is a seperate matter from what I'm bringing up here.

If he doesn't promote this book...he is fully capable of having his attorneys stop anyone from saying he does, as he has done in the past when people say things about him that is not true, that could hurt his ministry.
Copeland generally DOESN'T do this. He doesn't enter into mud-slinging contests, for if he did then the trash that is on the internet would drain all the ministry money into attorney fees.

New bible translation full of new age / occult, that is gay friendly, love mother earth friendly...No, it's Copeland that is weak!
You haven't proven that Copeland supports this book.

I've heard him talk for years about the integrity of God's Word and he spoke once about throwing a particular translation in the trash because it had something in it that wasn't in the original text...and now he and Savelle promote this melding of scripture with new age / occult sayings....No, it's Copeland that is weak!
They supposedly promote it because some anti-WoF site says they do?? Who are you lining up with here? You have not proven they support the contents that you suggest this book has.

Either that, or he needs the money...something is certainly screwy in St Louie with this deal.
It just isn't the same old Copeland that would do a thing like this.
This last statement should give you pause before railing against him. The first part is an unsubstantiated claim (we are back to the ninth commandment now).

On the other hand, it's possible he doesn't even know about it...which is also troubling, for different reasons, if true.
Why troubling? Does the man at the top of a corporation know EVERY LITTLE THING going on, or does he delegate responsibility. Call the ministry, KM. Call EMIC. Call the bookstore. Get their official take on the subject.

Ah, "Word Works" is the bible store inside his church...Eagle Mountain International Church in Newark Texas!

Another reason to believe he has no problem with this book, eh?
Ok. Now I see the connection. Didn't know the name of EMIC's bookstore before. Call EMIC. Call the bookstore.
 
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That viewpoint is not supported by the New Testament....

1 Corinthians 2:9-12
But as it is written, Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
But God has revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
For what man knows the things of a man, except the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

I believe these verses are talking about the blessings of salvation and that we can know them through the Holy Spirit

Romans 8:32
He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Isn't this really about that God will not withhold anything you need to live for Him.

God has no reason to hold back the things He paid an awesome price for us to have and know about...

My Bible teaches me that God is not holding back any information...
I believe, and I am confident that it is scriptural, that God has reasonably answered the most important questions we have. He has revealed doctrine in a clear enough way. Unfortunately man wants to make a big deal about it and form legalistic doctrine on issues that probably aren’t a big deal at all. Further, God’s invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature, are clearly seen and understood by what has been made so that we are without excuse for our sin and rebellion against God. (See Romans 1:20)
 
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KM Richards

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So I ask bluntly: are you Word of Faith?



Yes, are you???...



And secondly, one does not simply decide they are Word of Faith and then talk down about the leading teachers of the movement.



I ask you bluntly...are you following teachers of a "movement", or do you following the teachings of Jesus Christ???

And, why would you call it a "movement"??? I thought word of faith was taught in God's Word...wouldn't that make this mainstream according to God (a sharp contrast to what is considered mainstream according to the religious world).

That is troubling about you...if word of faith is scripture, and it is....then why are you calling it a "movement"??? Something isn't right about that...



You haven't proven that Copeland supports this book.



It's in the bookstore of his church...what other proof would you need???



we are back to the ninth commandment now



No, go to the bookstore in HIS church ands you'll see a nice display right along side of the Kenneth Copeland Reference Edition Bible...if he doesn't support this book...why is he making money selling it??? Why offer it to the sheep in your fold if you're not on board with it???

He is obviously associated with it, therefore I'm not bearing false witness...you are using that in an attempt to discredit what I'm saying, which is simply...Copeland is onboard with this book enough to sell it in his church and make money off of it.

The top guy isn't responsible for what goes on below him...sorry, that doesn't hold water when iot comes to being responsible for feeding the sheep good food that pleases Jesus!...which is what he is called to do, right?

How can you take believers to maturity in the Lord with the trash taught in the Message "bible"???

You can't!



Why troubling? Does the man at the top of a corporation know EVERY LITTLE THING going on, or does he delegate responsibility. Call the ministry, KM. Call EMIC. Call the bookstore. Get their official take on the subject.


I already have their take on it...they are making money off of this book by selling it to people in their bookstore!
 
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KM Richards

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I believe these verses are talking about the blessings of salvation and that we can know them through the Holy Spirit

Isn't this really about that God will not withhold anything you need to live for Him.

I believe, and I am confident that it is scriptural, that God has reasonably answered the most important questions we have. He has revealed doctrine in a clear enough way. Unfortunately man wants to make a big deal about it and form legalistic doctrine on issues that probably aren’t a big deal at all. Further, God’s invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature, are clearly seen and understood by what has been made so that we are without excuse for our sin and rebellion against God. (See Romans 1:20)


Wow...that sure limits what Jesus said the Holy Ghost would be to us in His earthly ministry.

He actually wants to bless us in every area of our life through the Holy Ghost...

2 Peter 1:3
According as his divine power HAS given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

Why would we want to limit God in our lives???

That's what religion does cause it's carnal and inspired by satan...even though most religious people have no clue
 
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KM Richards

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And secondly, one does not simply decide they are Word of Faith and then talk down about the leading teachers of the movement.


You know...I think the difference between you and me is that, I'm following word of faith due to it being taught in the Bible...not because of it being a "movement" which seems to be what you are doing seeing you are so concerned about "leading teachers of the movement"...

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but...none of these guys are perfect, and some even have sin in their lives (gasp, shocker!)

Of course, all of us have some measure of missing the mark (sin) in our lives because none of us are perfect, right? These guys are no more "anointed" in God's eyes than the rest of the Body of Christ. (I know...another blasphemy...:doh:...I gotta quit that so I don't get struck by lightening er somethin)

In fact, these guys are to SERVE the rest of us (Matthew 20:27, Matthew 23:11), which is what being a minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is all about according to Ephesians 4:11,12 which clearly states ministers are "for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ"

Did you notice it's the Body of Christ that is to do the "ministry"???

This business of putting people on a pedestal is not scriptural at all...these teachers should be putting the Body of Christ on a pedestal since they are called by Jesus to be in service unto HIS Body.

The whole reason I started listening to Copeland back in the mid-80s was because the first tape I heard him on he said: "don't believe anything because I say it, or because any preacher says it...No, you go to the Word for yourself and believe it because it's in the Bible!"

I had been around several preachers up till that time, and they all told me that I HAD to believe what they say because it was God's Will...well, I found out some of the stuff they were saying wasn't scriptural (old time pentecostal stuff...really bad, like God doesn't heal all the time, God is mad at me, etc, etc).

So, when I heard Copeland say that...I knew he was right, which is the ministry God used to teach me to have my own relationship with Him, personally.

If all WOF teachers get thrown in jail for whatever...it wouldn't bother me in the least...how 'bout you???

Would your faith be shaken? Would you be sad? How would you react if "leading teachers of the movement" were somehow put out of commission???
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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Yes, are you???...
Yes. But I guess what the subject of another thread might be is just what is Word of Faith. Does the history of the movement have ANY say in the answer to this question.

I ask you bluntly...are you following teachers of a "movement", or do you following the teachings of Jesus Christ???
Now THAT is a very, very good question. Too many people are followers of their movements or denominations seemingly BEFORE Christ; and that simply is not correct.

To answer: I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Biblical record. The bible tells us that Jesus started His church (Matt 16:18), and that the gates of Hell will not prevail against it (ditto). He tells us that the church is the pillar and ground of truth (1 Tim 3:15). So we are not isolate ourselves against the establishment of church, rather we are to not foresake assembling ourselves together (Heb 10:25) and in coming together, to come in peace and edification (Rom 1:2, Eph 2:21-22; 4:16, Phil 1:27, Col 2:2, 1 Thes 5:11). And we are to follow the lead of our elders and leaders (pastors, evangelists, teachers, apostles, prophets) (Eph 4:11-13, Phil 3:17, 1 Tim 5:17).

So it is Jesus (and the biblical record first), but that being taught by the annointed men of God whom He gave us for our edification. My understanding of the biblical record leads me to the established movement of Word of Faith, which to my understanding teaches biblical doctrine and theology more accurately than any other movement or denomination.

If we seperate ourselves out from the annointed men of God then we, like a lost sheep, are more prone to the attacks of the enemy than those of us who are under proper biblical authority.

And since I have aligned myself with the Word of Faith teachings and leaders, I will not flippantly disregard what they teach and call for their repentence. Rather I will move slowly and diligently, with honor. If I have ought against any of them I will take it up with them in private, and that in the presence of two or three witnesses -- not airing my dirty laundry before the entire congregation:
1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
Let's see that in a more English friendly version ;) :
1Ti 5:19 Don't listen to any charge against a church leader, unless at least two or three people bring the same charges.

And, why would you call it a "movement"??? I thought word of faith was taught in God's Word...wouldn't that make this mainstream according to God (a sharp contrast to what is considered mainstream according to the religious world).
Once again you a mixing terms and bringing an ecclectic meaning to words. The word of faith is what Paul and the leaders of the church preach:
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
This was used to name the movement, Word of Faith, which is a movement that started with Kenneth E. Hagin, with roots back to Kenyon and others, and propogated down through Kenneth Copeland as the most recognized teacher, evangelist and prophet within the movement today; among others who teach as Hagin led and taught them, passed down through the ranks, and, of course, always tested against the biblical Word of God for accuracy.


This is a movement instead of a denomination because it has not been brought together under a unified and collective governing body. It should be expected that this will eventually occur within WoF.


Such designation should only be used identify the outstanding beliefs or emphasis within the Church; for as the parts of the body each have their own function, the parts of the Church each have theirs. It is only for identification and not for seperation, for we are not to be sectarian (1 Cor 1:10-17). Christ is not divided.
 
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ABlessedAnomaly

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You know...I think the difference between you and me is that, I'm following word of faith due to it being taught in the Bible...not because of it being a "movement" which seems to be what you are doing seeing you are so concerned about "leading teachers of the movement"...

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but...none of these guys are perfect, and some even have sin in their lives (gasp, shocker!)

Of course, all of us have some measure of missing the mark (sin) in our lives because none of us are perfect, right? These guys are no more "anointed" in God's eyes than the rest of the Body of Christ. (I know...another blasphemy...:doh:...I gotta quit that so I don't get struck by lightening er somethin)
Guess I'm confused by your stance. Is ANY man in authority over you? (No trick question, not counting Jesus as He was a man who walked the earth, or course.) Is ANY man "over" you? Are there any leaders that you should respect? Please restate if a word I used can be too "picky."
 
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KM Richards

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Does the history of the movement have ANY say in the answer to this question.


Well, you can run that thread...I'm going to focus on mixing the Word with faith and DO what the Bible says in my life.



If I have ought against any of them I will take it up with them in private


Hope that works out for you...you won't get anywhere once they hear you are there with a complaint!

You do not take up anything like that with any WOF minister unless you already know him personaly such as a pastor....WOF ministers will tell you that it's not your place to correct them in any way. That's just how it is in the "movement"...if Hagin can't correct 'em, you won't be either.



It is only for identification and not for seperation, for we are not to be sectarian (1 Cor 1:10-17). Christ is not divided.


That's kinda funny cause WOF is very highly critical and divisive against ANYONE that does not embrace the biblical truth that God's Word is in our mouth and in our heart...and most WOF people push other Christians away.

That's the problem with looking at this as a "movement" instead of viewing it as being what the Bible teaches...and viewing it as being for everyone. Heck, people use word of faith to get born again...which I have used numerous times to make people realize that they need to be careful claiming it's not of God because making that claims calls in to question how a person got saved in the first place.



Is ANY man in authority over you?


Just like you...my pastor...and other members of the Body in general as per Ephesians 5:21
 
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