The discussion about Mithras entered this thread because you claimed that both Paul and the gospelers copied their information about Jesus instituting the eucharist from the rite practiced by the Mithras cult. Now what do we know about this rite. Previously, you linked to this Wikipedia page and urged me to get information about the Mithras cult from it. (See post #281). I then responded by actually reading the page and quoting the following to you in post #285:Justin tells us that the Mithra ritual was similar to the eucharist, and he tells us elsewhere (chapter 51 at Saint Justin Martyr: First Apology (Roberts-Donaldson)) that the demons who imitated Jesus did it before the Christians did.
Little is known about the beliefs of the cult of Mithras. Modern accounts rely primarily on modern interpretation of the reliefs.
No Mithraic scripture or first-hand account of its highly secret rituals survives, with the possible exception of a liturgy recorded in a 4th century papyrus, which may not be Mithraic at all. The walls of Mithraea were commonly whitewashed, and where this survives it tends to carry extensive repositories of graffiti and these, together with inscriptions on Mithraic monuments, form the main source for Mithraic texts.
Nevertheless, it is clear from the archeology of numerous Mithraea that most rituals were associated with feasting - as eating utensils and food residues are almost invariably found. These tend to include both animal bones and also very large quantities of fruit residues. The presence of large amounts of cherry-stones in particular would tend to confirm mid-summer (late June, early July) as a season especially associated with Mithraic festivities. The Virunum album, in the form of an inscribed bronze placque, records a Mithraic festival of commemoration as taking place on 26 June 184. Beck argues that religious celebrations on this date are indicative of special significance being given to the Summer solstice; but equally it may well be noted that, in northern and central Europe, reclining on a masonry plinth in an unheated cave was likely to be a predominantly summertime activity. For their feasts, Mithraic initiates reclined on stone benches arranged along the longer sides of the Mithraeum - typically there might be room for 15-30 diners, but very rarely many more than 40.Counterpart dining rooms, or were to be found above ground in the precincts of almost any temple or religious sanctuary in the Roman empire, and such rooms were commonly used for their regular feasts by Roman 'clubs', or collegia. Mithraic feasts probably performed a very similar function for Mithraists as the collegia did for those entitled to join them; indeed, since qualification for Roman collegia tended to be restricted to particular families, localities or traditional trades, Mithraism may have functioned in part as providing clubs for the unclubbed.
Assuming that's accurate (and you'd look rather foolish if you insisted that the page which you yourself linked to and endorsed is not accurate) we see that there's no evidence of any 'rite' with any similarity to the eucharist in the Mithras cult at all. The only other piece of evidence that you can offer is the following from Justin the Martyr:No Mithraic scripture or first-hand account of its highly secret rituals survives, with the possible exception of a liturgy recorded in a 4th century papyrus, which may not be Mithraic at all. The walls of Mithraea were commonly whitewashed, and where this survives it tends to carry extensive repositories of graffiti and these, together with inscriptions on Mithraic monuments, form the main source for Mithraic texts.
Nevertheless, it is clear from the archeology of numerous Mithraea that most rituals were associated with feasting - as eating utensils and food residues are almost invariably found. These tend to include both animal bones and also very large quantities of fruit residues. The presence of large amounts of cherry-stones in particular would tend to confirm mid-summer (late June, early July) as a season especially associated with Mithraic festivities. The Virunum album, in the form of an inscribed bronze placque, records a Mithraic festival of commemoration as taking place on 26 June 184. Beck argues that religious celebrations on this date are indicative of special significance being given to the Summer solstice; but equally it may well be noted that, in northern and central Europe, reclining on a masonry plinth in an unheated cave was likely to be a predominantly summertime activity. For their feasts, Mithraic initiates reclined on stone benches arranged along the longer sides of the Mithraeum - typically there might be room for 15-30 diners, but very rarely many more than 40.Counterpart dining rooms, or were to be found above ground in the precincts of almost any temple or religious sanctuary in the Roman empire, and such rooms were commonly used for their regular feasts by Roman 'clubs', or collegia. Mithraic feasts probably performed a very similar function for Mithraists as the collegia did for those entitled to join them; indeed, since qualification for Roman collegia tended to be restricted to particular families, localities or traditional trades, Mithraism may have functioned in part as providing clubs for the unclubbed.
For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body; "and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My blood; "and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.
While you prefer to emphasize the next-to-last sentence, obviously the last sentence is important as well. Justin says specifically that what he knows about the mysteries of Mithras involves bread and water (not wine) with 'certain incantations' in the 'rites of one who is being initiated'. He does not say that there is any imitation of the specific aspects of the eucharist. Furthermore, it raises the obvious question of why you're so willing to trust Justin. If you're not a Christian, you obviously believe that most of Justin's writings are flatly false, so how can you simultaneously insist that this particular one has to be true and then stretch beyond what it actuallys says to a claim that the entire scene of Jesus starting the eucharist comes from the Mithras cult?
Now, looking at what Paul wrote and what the gospelers wrote about the eucharist we can see that they both knew the following things. (1) Jesus instituted the eucharist on the night he was betrayed to the authorities. (2) It involved bread and wine. (3) He said that the bread was His body. (4) He said that the wine was his blood. (5) He remarked that the presense of his blood in the wine represented the New Covenant he was making. (6) He told his followers to take bread and wine and repeat the process in remembrance of him. So if you wanted to claim that Paul and the gospelers copied from the Mithras cult (or any other source), you would need to prove that the rite of the Mithras cult (or that other source) had properties # 1 through 6. Unfortunately for you, there is no evidence that either the Mithras cult or any other source had even one single one of those six properties, much less that they had all six.
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