Psalms 83: A War Before the Gog-Magog War

[grabsuccess]

For some reason, most Ministers, Rabbis, Priests, and Pastors haven't heard of or haven't mentioned that there is a Prophesied War of Psalm 83 prior to Ezekiel 38.

The Isaiah 17 destruction of Damascus, Syria might happen during this Psalm 83 conflict.

The growing unrest of the masses of Muslims especially in Egypt for a new president, for better living conditions, for jobs is spreading to Jordan, and Saudi Arabia now; Jordan is 70% Palestinian.

Lebanon and Syria are starting to feel tension in their population. It doesn't take much for militant groups like Al Qaeda, The Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah and Hamas to stir things up further especially if Israel has to strike out against Hezbollah in Lebanon for starting another confrontation, or Syria joining in also to wipe out Israel from being a nation.

Israel could at any time move massively against Gaza just because they are tired of the almost daily bombardment of rockets fired from Gaza.

This is not the future Gog-Magog War of Ezekiel 38. The future Gog-Magog War is the Russian alliance to take a spoil, or plunder Israel.

The Gog-Magog War will happen only after after Israel is dwelling safely in their land without walls according to Ezekiel 11:

Ezekiel 38: 1-14 (quoted almost fully just in case people aren't aware of this future prophesy either)

1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: 4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them. 8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. 9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee. 10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought: 11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, 12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land. 13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil? 14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

After the Psalm 83 War, Israel will enlarge Her borders taking over 5 cities in Egypt (Isaiah 19:18). The Psalm 83 prophecy also seems to indicate that most of the Palestinians will be wiped out so this of course would make the existing wall to keep out suicide bombers unnecessary.

Another interesting note is that Isaiah Chapter 15 talks about the destruction of Moab which hasn't happened yet. Moab were the descendants of the incestuous offspring of Lot and one of his daughters.

Moab was located east of the Dead Sea and the Jordan River. Today part of south Jordan. Ammon and Edom are part of Jordan also and will fight against Israel.

Israel is finding huge natural gas deposits and might soon find gigantic oil deposits as well. Israel is abundant in producing all kinds of produce and Israel produces a wealth of products to sell. The Dead Sea has many rare chemicals and rare elements needed by by industries world wide for manufacturing.

The nations involved in the coming Psalm 83 War's sole purpose is to wipe out Israel from being a nation:

Egypt*, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and their client terrorist groups, the Palestinians, Hezbollah and Hamas. Hezbollah just recently took control of the Lebanese government by new elections.

Isaiah 17 tells of a future battle with Israel where Damascus, the capitol of Syria, is so totally destroyed that it can never be inhabited again. Both of these prophecies seem likely to be fulfilled before the Battle of Ezekiel 38 takes place.

*It is not totally clear if Egypt is involved in this coalition or not, but they are not mentioned in the Gog-Magog War, so it is supposed that they might be involved in this Psalm 83 conflict. The main thing
is they are the largest Muslim nation and the unrest happening there affects the whole Middle-East.

What started in Tunisia, is spreading throughout the Middle-East and of course extreme Islamic elements will take this opportunity to gain power wherever possible.

Psalm 83: 1-8

1 A Song or Psalm of Asaph. Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God. 2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head. 3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones. 4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. 5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee: 6 The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes; 7 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre; 8 Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.

Is the Middle East About to Go Apocalyptic?

By Bill Salas

The possible, albeit speculative, scenario I am suggesting to prepare for is as follows:

1. Israeli Pre-empted strike against Iran's nuclear sites.
2. Iran and/or proxies (Hezbollah, Syria, Hamas) retaliate.
3. Israel uses Scalar Technology against Damascus
4. Damascus ceases to be a city (Isaiah 17:1 fulfilled)
5. Arab League calls an emergency meeting intended to
draw a line in the sand between Israel and the Arabs
6. Jordan and Egypt are pressured to break fragile
peace treaties with Israel and confederate with other
Arabs. (Jordan and Egypt are enlisted members of Psalm 83)
7. Saudi Arabia, also enlisted in Psalm 83, joins in for survival and economic, religious, and geo-political purposes
8. Psalm 83 commences...
On a side note; Arab Nationalism is at an all time high especially in light of the Iranian nuclear threat. Additionally the Palestinian Refugee Plight is climaxing presently and, if the scenario I'm
suggesting occurs, it could come full front and center in the midst of this major conflict. I believe these refugees are represented as the
"tents of Edom" in Psalm 83:6.
9. Israel recognizes Arab military intentions and launches further preemptive strikes on its Arab neighbors and strikes religious sites in Saudi Arabia and overtakes the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the
Rock. (Jimmy DeYoung informed me that the priestly garb is presently being prepared for about 28,000 Levites. DeYoung declared, They are saying in Israel today; "When the dome comes down, the priestly garments come out"! )
10. The Psalm 83 war ends, separation wall comes down, and construction of third Jewish temple begins.
11. The I.D.F. becomes an exceedingly great army in
fulfillment of Ezekiel 37:10.

It may not happen exactly in this way; however, the above scenario is not that far fetched and I encourage people to prepare for the above or some varying scenario possibilities.

The prophecies that are about to be fulfilled leading up to Ezekiel 38 are world changing and then the world will probably witness the Gog of Magog invasion. The sign posts are all up and pointing toward the nearby coming of the seven-year tribulation period ending with the campaign of Armageddon, shortly after the above type scenario occurs.

(End of Bill Salas excerpt)

What do you think of this recently discovered prophesy of Psalm 83?

Is it coming to pass soon, within 2 or 3 years?

Any views on this are welcomed. I am interested in whether or not people believe
that the Psalms 83 prophecy will be accepted as the Ezekiel 38 prophesy has been.

Rickey

 

[Choose Wisely]

For some reason, most Ministers, Rabbis, Priests, and Pastors haven't heard of or haven't mentioned that there is a Prophesied War of Psalms 83 prior to Ezekiel 38.

The Isaiah 17 destruction of Damascus, Syria might happen during this Psalms 83 conflict.

The growing unrest of the masses of Muslims especially in Egypt for a new president, for better living conditions, for jobs is spreading to Jordan, and Saudi Arabia now; Jordan is 70% Palestinian.

Lebanon and Syria are starting to feel tension in their population. It doesn't take much for militant groups like Al Qaeda, The Muslim Brotherhood, Hezbollah and Hamas to stir things up further especially if Israel has to strike out against Hezbollah in Lebanon for starting another confrontation, or Syria joining in also to wipe out Israel from being a nation.

Israel could at any time move massively against Gaza just because they are tired of the almost daily bombardment of rockets fired from Gaza.

This is not the future Gog-Magog War of Ezekiel 38. The future Gog-Magog War is the Russian alliance to take a spoil, or plunder Israel.

The Gog-Magog War will happen only after after Israel is dwelling safely in their land without walls according to Ezekiel 11:

Ezekiel 38: 1-14 (quoted almost fully just in case people aren't aware of this future prophesy either)

1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: 4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: 5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee. 7 Be thou prepared, and prepare for thyself, thou, and all thy company that are assembled unto thee, and be thou a guard unto them. 8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. 9 Thou shalt ascend and come like a storm, thou shalt be like a cloud to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee. 10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought: 11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, 12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land. 13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil? 14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

After the Psalms 83 War, Israel will enlarge Her borders taking over 5 cities in Egypt (Isaiah 19:18). The Psalms 83 prophecy also seems to indicate that most of the Palestinians will be wiped out so this of course would make the existing wall to keep out suicide bombers unnecessary.

Another interesting note is that Isaiah Chapter 15 talks about the destruction of Moab which hasn't happened yet. Moab were the descendants of the incestuous offspring of Lot and one of his daughters.

Moab was located east of the Dead Sea and the Jordan River. Today part of south Jordan. Ammon and Edom are part of Jordan also and will fight against Israel.

Israel is finding huge natural gas deposits and might soon find gigantic oil deposits as well. Israel is abundant in producing all kinds of produce and Israel produces a wealth of products to sell. The Dead Sea has many rare chemicals and rare elements needed by by industries world wide for manufacturing.

The nations involved in the coming Psalms 83 War's sole purpose is to wipe out Israel from being a nation:

Egypt*, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and their client terrorist groups, the Palestinians, Hezbollah and Hamas. Hezbollah just recently took control of the Lebanese government by new elections.

Isaiah 17 tells of a future battle with Israel where Damascus, the capitol of Syria, is so totally destroyed that it can never be inhabited again. Both of these prophecies seem likely to be fulfilled before the Battle of Ezekiel 38 takes place.

*It is not totally clear if Egypt is involved in this coalition or not, but they are not mentioned in the Gog-Magog War, so it is supposed that they might be involved in this Psalms 83 conflict. The main thing
is they are the largest Muslim nation and the unrest happening there affects the whole Middle-East.

What started in Tunisia, is spreading throughout the Middle-East and of course extremes Islamic elements will take this opportunity to gain power wherever possible.

Psalms 83: 1-8

1 A Song or Psalm of Asaph. Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God. 2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head. 3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones. 4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance. 5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee: 6 The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes; 7 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;
8 Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.

Is the Middle East About to Go Apocalyptic?

By Bill Salas

The possible, albeit speculative, scenario I am suggesting to prepare for is as follows:

1. Israeli Pre-empted strike against Iran's nuclear sites.
2. Iran and/or proxies (Hezbollah, Syria, Hamas) retaliate.
3. Israel uses Scalar Technology against Damascus
4. Damascus ceases to be a city (Isaiah 17:1 fulfilled)
5. Arab League calls an emergency meeting intended to
draw a line in the sand between Israel and the Arabs
6. Jordan and Egypt are pressured to break fragile
peace treaties with Israel and confederate with other
Arabs. (Jordan and Egypt are enlisted members of Psalm 83)
7. Saudi Arabia, also enlisted in Psalm 83, joins in for survival and economic, religious, and geo-political purposes
8. Psalm 83 commences...
On a side note; Arab Nationalism is at an all time high especially in light of the Iranian nuclear threat. Additionally the Palestinian Refugee Plight is climaxing presently and, if the scenario I'm
suggesting occurs, it could come full front and center in the midst of this major conflict. I believe these refugees are represented as the
"tents of Edom" in Psalm 83:6.
9. Israel recognizes Arab military intentions and launches further preemptive strikes on its Arab neighbors and strikes religious sites in Saudi Arabia and overtakes the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the
Rock. (Jimmy DeYoung informed me that the priestly garb is presently being prepared for about 28,000 Levites. DeYoung declared, They are saying in Israel today; "When the dome comes down, the priestly garments come out"! )
10. The Psalm 83 war ends, separation wall comes down, and construction of third Jewish temple begins.
11. The I.D.F. becomes an exceedingly great army in
fulfillment of Ezekiel 37:10.

It may not happen exactly in this way; however, the above scenario is not that far fetched and I encourage people to prepare for the above or some varying scenario possibilities.

The prophecies that are about to be fulfilled leading up to Ezekiel 38 are world changing and then the world will probably witness the Gog of Magog invasion. The sign posts are all up and pointing toward the nearby coming of the seven-year tribulation period ending with the campaign of Armageddon, shortly after the above type scenario
occurs.

(End of Bill Salas excerpt)

What do you think of this recently discovered prophesy of Psalms 83?

Is it coming to pass soon, within 2 or 3 years?

Any views on this are welcomed. I am interested in whether or not people believe
that the Psalms 83 prophecy will be accepted as the Ezekiel 38 prophesy has been.

Rickey

Gog/Magog happens after the 1000 years.

Rev 20
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

I don't see Gog dying twice and fire coming down from heaven twice destroying the same armies, 1000 years apart.

 

[LovedofHim]

Is it possible that Psalm 83 has already been fulfilled with the war that broke out when Israel became a nation?
The 1948 War

It involved Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq which just so happens to be all the people involved in Psalm 83.

1 O God, do not remain silent;
do not turn a deaf ear,
do not stand aloof, O God.
2 See how your enemies growl,
how your foes rear their heads.
3 With cunning they conspire against your people;
they plot against those you cherish.
4 “Come,” they say, “let us destroy them as a nation,
so that Israel’s name is remembered no more.” 5 With one mind they plot together;
they form an alliance against you—
6 the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
of Moab and the Hagrites,
7 Byblos, Ammon and Amalek,
Philistia, with the people of Tyre.
8 Even Assyria has joined them
to reinforce Lot’s descendants

 

[NJBeliever]

Is it possible that Psalm 83 has already been fulfilled with the war that broke out when Israel became a nation?
The 1948 War

It involved Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq which just so happens to be all the people involved in Psalm 83.

1 O God, do not remain silent;
do not turn a deaf ear,
do not stand aloof, O God.
2 See how your enemies growl,
how your foes rear their heads.
3 With cunning they conspire against your people;
they plot against those you cherish.
4 “Come,” they say, “let us destroy them as a nation,
so that Israel’s name is remembered no more.” 5 With one mind they plot together;
they form an alliance against you—
6 the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
of Moab and the Hagrites,
7 Byblos, Ammon and Amalek,
Philistia, with the people of Tyre.
8 Even Assyria has joined them
to reinforce Lot’s descendants

This is a very good point but Psalm 83 prophesies the destruction of those nations. The 1948 war from a combat standpoint, just pushed them back on their own turf.

I agree with the OP 100%. The Psalm 83 war has not yet happened but will take place before Gog/Magog. It sets the stage for Israel being "at peace" and "without walls" at the time of Gog/Magog.

 

[NJBeliever]

Gog/Magog happens after the 1000 years.

Rev 20
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

I don't see Gog dying twice and fire coming down from heaven twice destroying the same armies, 1000 years apart.

This passage causes a great deal of debate about Gog/Magog and rightly so. But I believe upon close Biblical inspection, the real Gog/Magog and this battle of Rev 20 cannot possibly be the same.

1. Gog/Magog is a confederacy. The nations of Ezekiel 38 are clearly outlined. It is a small confederacy attempting to attack Israel. The Rev 20 battle involves all the nations of the world against Israel.

2. GOD is the Initiator of Gog/Magog. Read Ezekiel 38. God goes out of His way to initiate the Gog/Magog war. He actually says He is going to put hooks in the jaw of Gog?Magog to drag them down to battle. Over and over again, God makes it clear that He is going to influence Gog/Magog to start this conflict. The Rev 20 battle is initiated by SATAN. Satan clearly goes out again to deceive and recruit the world to battle Israel. Meanwhile, in Ezekiel 38, Satan is never mentioned once.

3. Spiritual Condition -- God says that after the Gog/Magog battle, Israel will "no longer pollute" His name. The victory will lead to Israel fully acknowledging and worshiping The Lord. By the time of Rev 20, Jesus Christ The Lord, will be ruling out of Israel in person. There is no way that Israel would be a place to pollute God's name with God incarnate on the throne ruling with a rod of iron.

4. Method of defeat -- Ezekiel also details how Gog/Magog will be defeated: via brimstone, blood and hail. The Revelation 20 battle army is defeated by fire from Heaven.

5. Post battle conditions - Gog/Magog is followed by a series of post battle conditions. Animals eat certain bodies of the dead. There is a massive cleanup project. And weapons are burned for fuel for seven years. We see no such things take place at Rev 20. At the end of Rev 20, Satan and sin have been fully defeated, allowing God to make a New Heaven and Earth, free from any of the stain of sins past. Humans don't do any cleanup. God does it. Additionally, the seven year timeframe obviously would not apply to this.

So why are Gog and Magog mentioned in Rev 20? I believe the names are just being used descriptively to detail the nature of the battle: another assault on Israel, not the actual participants. Gog will have been long dead by the time of the Millienium.

 

[grabsuccess]

I have just a few points that lets us know that Psalms 83 has not happened before:

1. Israel has not taken over 5 cities in Egypt yet. This will be permanent because all of the inhabitants will be speaking the language of Canaan (Hebrew), which means these cities will from then on be inhabited by Jews and never given back again for something bogus such as a land for peace deal.

2. Damascus, Syria is the oldest continuously inhabited city in the history of the world. Damascus has never been destroyed. In Isaiah 17 it is so completely wiped out that it will never again be inhabited.

3. Gaza has not been defeated yet.

4. Lebanon will have to be defeated along with the rest of Syria because they are stockpiling chemical, biological, and powerful conventional weapons (so far conventional) to destroy Israel. Hezbollah puts these missile systems either near schools, apartments, and hospitals, or they actually build these missile systems into these structures.

Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza, are well known to use their own citizens as human shields to make it tougher for Israel to target them.

I could go on about the House of Esau (Edom) being destroyed along with Moab and Ammon - ancient tribes living in the area of Jordan.

To understand the Bible as it pertains to the world today, you have to know what people are being talked about. The Bible uses the ancient tribal names of peoples to help us identify them.

 

[1whirlwind]

Sorry....wrong thing posted

 

[CryptoLutheran]

Why is Psalms 83 prophetic? What's the rationale? Someone explain to me why because it makes no sense at all.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[grabsuccess]

Why is Psalms 83 prophetic? What's the rationale? Someone explain to me why because it makes no sense at all.

-CryptoLutheran

I'll let someone else answer this, I thought my original post explained everything. To me this is like asking why is Israel becoming a nation again prophetic.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

I'll let someone else answer this, I thought my original post explained everything. To me this is like asking why is Israel becoming a nation again prophetic.

Well, I do think that's a fair question too. I happen to reject the idea that the State of Israel is prophetic. But that's a tangent here.

What I'm asking is for some rationale as to why Psalms 83 can be exegeted to refer to some war that has not as of yet happened. There's nothing in the text that would indicate that it's anything other than a psalm petitioning God to protect His people and demonstrate His might against Israel's enemies.

So yes, I'm curious as for the reasoning behind reaching the conclusion.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Gog/Magog happens after the 1000 years.

Rev 20
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

I don't see Gog dying twice and fire coming down from heaven twice destroying the same armies, 1000 years apart.

There are some that view these 2 events as one and the same.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7413416/
Armegeddon/Gog-Magog same event?

 

[NJBeliever]

Why is Psalms 83 prophetic? What's the rationale? Someone explain to me why because it makes no sense at all.

-CryptoLutheran

Prophetic = (A) An event that the Bible states is going to happen + (B) It has not happened yet.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

Prophetic = (A) An event that the Bible states is going to happen + (B) It has not happened yet.

And what in Psalm 83 suggests that it's about a war that's going to happen? How is it anything other than the Psalmist petitioning God on behalf of Israel while surrounded by enemies, why does it necessitate that there be a future event that this actually happens? That's what I'm getting at.

I don't see any reason to read this as describing a future war or any actual war, but as a psalm petitioning God's Providence over Israel due to the threat of Israel's surrounding neighbors.

Let's take another random psalm, Psalm 137, if I suggested that it was a prophecy against Babylon, that their children's heads would be dashed upon the rocks and then applied it eschatologically one would reasonably want to know by what rationale I am making that interpretation and suggestion. Because that seems like a stretch, right?

By the same token I'm asking for a rationale, a reason, something to justify interpreting Psalm 83 as a predictive prophecy regarding a future war between Israel and Moab, Amalek, etc.

Why is it a prophecy? There should be some rationale, some reason to exegete this psalm this way. That's what I'm asking for.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[grabsuccess]

Prophetic = (A) An event that the Bible states is going to happen + (B) It has not happened yet.

Hi, NJBeliever.

Great podcasts, I have been listening to you using iTunes and sometimes just from your website. You are a fresh and much needed voice. I can hear a passion come through when it comes to talking/preaching about the Word.

Rickey

 

[LovedofHim]

And what in Psalm 83 suggests that it's about a war that's going to happen? How is it anything other than the Psalmist petitioning God on behalf of Israel while surrounded by enemies, why does it necessitate that there be a future event that this actually happens? That's what I'm getting at.

I don't see any reason to read this as describing a future war or any actual war, but as a psalm petitioning God's Providence over Israel due to the threat of Israel's surrounding neighbors.

Let's take another random psalm, Psalm 137, if I suggested that it was a prophecy against Babylon, that their children's heads would be dashed upon the rocks and then applied it eschatologically one would reasonably want to know by what rationale I am making that interpretation and suggestion. Because that seems like a stretch, right?

By the same token I'm asking for a rationale, a reason, something to justify interpreting Psalm 83 as a predictive prophecy regarding a future war between Israel and Moab, Amalek, etc.

Why is it a prophecy? There should be some rationale, some reason to exegete this psalm this way. That's what I'm asking for.

-CryptoLutheran

I agree that Psalm 83 is a PETITION of Israel to God, not an action. Their neighbors are consulting together to "wipe Israel off the map". They are not invading...yet, in Psalm 83. Israel is making suggestions as to what God should do to them.

Psalm 83


1Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God.
2For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
3They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
4They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
5For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:
6The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes;
7Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre; 8Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.


Interestingly, Ezekiel 38 has a similar thing going on but the enemies act on their "evil thought" :


10Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
11And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, 12To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.

 

[grabsuccess]

Maybe there are other scriptures that help tell the rest of the story. I do believe that this crafty counsel stage is setting Israel up for an imminent invasion by Israel's so-called neighbors.

Talk is Talk, it sounds like this is not just Talk, but Islamic War Drums being beaten as they are getting ready for a serious War to wipe Israel off the map once and for all.

Rickey

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Any views on this are welcomed. I am interested in whether or not people believe
that the Psalms 83 prophecy will be accepted as the Ezekiel 38 prophesy has been.

Rickey

Actually, many of us have talked about it off and on for some years, around here and other places.

You might be interested to know that Assur is Iran, in that Psalm, who helps the children of Lot. For that to happen, Jordon has to fall like Egypt has.
Before I discovered the Book of Jasher, I thought Iraq was
assur".

Jasher Chapter 10 - The Book of Jasher Published by J.H. Parry & Company 1887
30

And some of the children of Shem son of Noah, father of all the children of Eber, also went and built themselves cities in the places wherein they were scattered, and they called their cities after their names.
31

And the sons of Shem were Elam, Ashur, Arpachshad, Lud and Aram, and they built themselves cities and called the names of all their cities after their names.
32

And Ashur son of Shem and his children and household went forth at that time, a very large body of them, and they went to a distant land that they found, and they met with a very extensive valley in the land that they went to, and they built themselves four cities, and they called them after their own names and occurrences.
33

And these are the names of the cities which the children of Ashur built, Ninevah, Resen, Calach and Rehobother; and the children of Ashur dwell there unto this day.
34

And the children of Aram also went and built themselves a city, and they called the name of the city Uz after their eldest brother, and they dwell therein; that is the land of Uz to this day.

Psa 83:8 Assur/'Ashshuwr also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah. 'Ashshuwr -AV — Assyria 118, Assyrian 19, Asshur 8, Assyrian + 01121 5, Assur 1
Aram is Syria, and in Genesis and other places in the Book of Jasher, it is also called Haran.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

And what in Psalm 83 suggests that it's about a war that's going to happen? How is it anything other than the Psalmist petitioning God on behalf of Israel while surrounded by enemies, why does it necessitate that there be a future event that this actually happens? That's what I'm getting at.
-CryptoLutheran

The English translators translated it as a petition, but the wording is a prophetic declaration of what is goiing to happen, and you can take it to the bank. It will happen, and when it does, Israel will have her "promised by YHWH" land borders, which he gave to Abraham as an everlasting covenant. They will have their borders from the river of Egypt to the Euphrates, up to Mount Hermon of the Lebanon border, and to the Mediterranean sea -and Damascus will be a heap of ruins, never inhabited again.

 

[LovedofHim]

Here's another one:

20Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

21Son of man, set thy face against Zidon, and prophesy against it,
22And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Zidon; and I will be glorified in the midst of thee: and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall have executed judgments in her, and shall be sanctified in her.
23For I will send into her pestilence, and blood into her streets; and the wounded shall be judged in the midst of her by the sword upon her on every side; and they shall know that I am the LORD.
24And there shall be no more a pricking brier unto the house of Israel, nor any grieving thorn of all that are round about them, that despised them; and they shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
25Thus saith the Lord GOD; When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob. 26And they shall dwell safely therein, and shall build houses, and plant vineyards; yea, they shall dwell with confidence, when I have executed judgments upon all those that despise them round about them; and they shall know that I am the LORD their God.

 

[grabsuccess]

Here is what sounds like an aftermath of the War of Psalms 83. When searching the scriptures you have to discern what is history and what hasn't happened yet. Gaza has always been inhabited. The Israeli cities of Ashkelon and Ashdod, cities just north of the Gaza strip are still inhabited. These cities might be destroyed due to a Hamas action in southern Israel. The nation of Cherethites refers to the whole area of ancient Philistine or the Gaza strip today. The ancient city of Ekron that was a contested border area between ancient Philistine and Israel is just ruins now, but there is a modern city of Kiryat Ekron that is located approximately 23 kilometres South East from Tel Aviv and 40 km West of Jerusalem. Ammon and Moab (parts of Jordan today) have not been destroyed like Sodom and Gomorrah yet.

Again, when searching the scriptures you have to discern what is history and what hasn't happened yet.

Zephaniah 2

1 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired; 23 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger. 4 For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. 5 Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast, the nation of the Cherethites! the word of the LORD is against you; O Canaan, the land of the Philistines, I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant. 6 And the sea coast shall be dwellings and cottages for shepherds, and folds for flocks. 7 And the coast shall be for the remnant of the house of Judah; they shall feed thereupon: in the houses of Ashkelon shall they lie down in the evening: for the LORD their God shall visit them, and turn away their captivity. 8 I have heard the reproach of Moab, and the revilings of the children of Ammon, whereby they have reproached my people, and magnified themselves against their border. 9 Therefore as I live, saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Surely Moab shall be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrah, even the breeding of nettles, and saltpits, and a perpetual desolation: the residue of my people shall spoil them, and the remnant of my people shall possess them.

Rickey