Socialism - An Evil Concept

LightHorseman

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"To add even more insult to injury: the suggestion that it is preferable for a woman to die in a rape rather than survive and raise the child that results from it"

O.O

Ok, I'm beginning to think Poe. Because that is just evil.

Comforting to assume so, but post count and consistency of tone and message suggest he's legit. Scary, yes, but so long as such views remain an extreme outlier, we'll all be OK. When such views edge towrds the mainstream, well, I'd say "run for the hills", but I rather suspect thats the direction they'll be coming from.
 
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TheReasoner

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Comforting to assume so, but post count and consistency of tone and message suggest he's legit. Scary, yes, but so long as such views remain an extreme outlier, we'll all be OK. When such views edge towrds the mainstream, well, I'd say "run for the hills", but I rather suspect thats the direction they'll be coming from.

Yep. I'm thinking a strategy akin to that preferred in many zombie movies might be preferrable: Find a supermarket or mall. Fortify it. Arm yourselves. And wait it out.
 
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jgarden

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As you deal with Socialists and they see problems with Socialism, they become cynics that don't believe any system works, but I believe Democracy, Christianly and Capitalism is the best system. I believe Democracy, Christianity and Capitalism that is advocated by Republicans is better than Democracy, Atheism and Socialism advocated by democrats.

With a democracy, the most are always in control, thus those the become violent are always in the minority. If the minorities attempt violence the violence should be dealt with by violence.

Wealth does lead to power and power can be abused. Based on what Warren Buffett says, I would conclude Warren Buffett is an evil person, but that does not prove all people who are rich are evil.

I believe that under Democracy, Christianity and Capitalism, Christianity can deal with evil people that become rich and abuse their power.

In order to preserve Democracy, Christianity and Capitalism, it is necessary to find Christians to run for office and to elect Christians to office.

Atheists in office will never support Christians policies.
***********************************************************************************
Human Development Index

The Human Development Index (HDI) is a composite statistic used as an index to rank countries by level of "human development" and separate developed (high development), developing (middle development), and underdeveloped (low development) countries. The statistic is composed from statistics for Life Expectancy, Education, and GDP collected at the national level using the formula.

Origins of the HDI - The origins of the HDI are to be found in the United Nations Development Programme's (UNDP) Human Development Reports (HDRs). These were devised and launched by Pakistani Economist Mahbub ul Haq in 1990 and had the explicit purpose: ‘‘to shift the focus of development economics from national income accounting to people centered policies.’’

The HDI combines three dimensions:
1. Life expectancy at birth (Life Expectancy Index) - as an index of population health and longevity
2. Knowledge and education (Adult Literacy Index (ALI), (Gross Enrollment Index (GEI)) -as measured by the adult literacy rate (with two-thirds weighting) and the combined primary, secondary, and tertiary gross enrolment ratio (with one-third weighting).
3. Standard of living (GDP) - as measured by the natural logarithm of gross domestic product per capita at purchasing power parity.

Rank - Nation - Score
**********************************************************
1. Norway 0.971 (▲ 1)
2. Australia 0.970 (▲ 2)
3. Iceland 0.969 (▼ 2)
4. Canada 0.966 (▼ 1)
5. Ireland 0.965 (▬)
6. Netherlands 0.964 (▬)
7. Sweden 0.963 (▬)
8. France 0.961 (▲ 3)
9. Switzerland 0.960 (▬)
10. Japan 0.960 (▬)
11. Luxembourg 0.960 (▼ 3)
12. Finland 0.959 (▲ 1)

13. United States 0.956 (▼ 1)

14. Austria 0.955 (▲ 2)
15. Spain 0.955 (▬)
16. Denmark 0.955 (▼ 2)
17. Belgium 0.953 (▬)
18. Italy 0.951 (▲ 1)
19. Liechtenstein 0.951 (▼ 1)
20. New Zealand 0.950 (▬)
21. United Kingdom 0.947 (▬)
22. Germany 0.947 (▬)
23. Singapore 0.944 (▲ 1)
24. Hong Kong 0.944 (▼ 1)
25. Greece 0.942 (▬)

The 2009 report was released on October 5, 2009, and covers the period up to 2007.

Human Development Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
1. Despite being the wealthiest, most powerful nation in the history of the world, the 2009 Human Development Index (based on 2007 data) ranks the United States at lucky #13. The vast majority of the top 25 nations, including those ranked 1-12 would be considered "Socialist and Atheistic" by "clirus' " standards.

2. Warren Buffett, whom "clirus" concludes is "an evil person," (apparently anyone/anything with whom "clirus" disagrees is considered evil) has arranged to give 85% of his wealth to charity, making him the 2nd most generous philanthropist in the world, Both he and Bill Gates (the most generous philanthropist), the "high priests" of "capitalism" (the system "clirus" considers most compatible with Christianity) in America and the world also happen to be "atheists."
 
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jameseb

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The Bible advocates person charity. The Bible does not advocate Socialism.


Christ didn't advocate any system of government. I'm sure if Christ wanted to be a political advocate, he would have spoken against the harsh, imperial Roman rule, but instead told his followers to give unto Caesar what is his.

Clirus, a system of government cannot inherently be good or evil... no more than a tablespoon could be. You have a lot of passion and feeling about this, but it is misplaced.
 
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peadar1987

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Christ didn't advocate any system of government. I'm sure if Christ wanted to be a political advocate, he would have spoken against the harsh, imperial Roman rule, but instead told his followers to give unto Caesar what is his.

Clirus, a system of government cannot inherently be good or evil... no more than a tablespoon could be. You have a lot of passion and feeling about this, but it is misplaced.

You haven't heard Clirus' explanation of the Caesar quote. She believes... wait for it... that Jesus was being sarcastic when he said that!
 
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jameseb

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You haven't heard Clirus' explanation of the Caesar quote. She believes... wait for it... that Jesus was being sarcastic when he said that!


I certainly hope that's not what she/he really believes, and hopefully Clirus will address this.
 
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jgarden

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The Forbes Richest Americans (2009)

Rank-Name-Net Worth ($mil)-Source
**********************************************
1 William Gates III 50,000 - Microsoft (atheist)
2 Warren Buffett 40,000 - Berkshire Hathaway (atheist)
3 Lawrence Ellison 27,000 - Oracle
4 Christy Walton & family 21,500 - Wal-Mart
5 Jim C. Walton 19,600 - Wal-Mart
6 Alice Walton 19,300 - Wal-Mart
7 S. Robson Walton 19,000 - Wal-Mart
8 Michael Bloomberg 17,500 - Bloomberg
9 Charles Koch 16,000 - manufacturing, energy
9 David Koch 16,000 - manufacturing, energy
11 Sergey Brin 15,300 -Google
11 Larry Page 15,300 - Google
13 Michael Dell 14,500 - Dell
14 Steven Ballmer 13,300 - Microsoft
15 George Soros 13,000 - hedge funds (athiest)
16 Donald Bren 12,000 - real estate
17 Paul Allen 11,500 - Microsoft, investments
17 Abigail Johnson 11,500 - Fidelity
19 Forrest Edward Mars 11,000 - candy, pet food
19 Jacqueline Mars 11,000 - candy, pet food
19 John Mars 11,000 - candy, pet food
22 Carl Icahn 10,500 73 - leveraged buyouts
23 Ronald Perelman 10,000 - leveraged buyouts
24 George B. Kaiser 9,500 - oil & gas, banking
24 Philip Knight 9,500 - Nike
"I believe Democracy, Christianity and Capitalism is the best system" - The personal wealth of Bill Gates (atheist) alone is equal to 40% of the households of America (approximately 120 million people). When you add the wealth of Warren Buffett and George Soros, both billionaire atheits - so much for "clirus' " Capitalism/Christianity connection.
 
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MacFall

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What "Christian policies" are alien to athiests?

Mandatory school prayer seems to be a popular one. Although I've never found scriptural basis for forcing people to practice Christian rituals. Nor, in fact, for having the rituals in the first place.
 
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MacFall

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Christ didn't advocate any system of government. I'm sure if Christ wanted to be a political advocate, he would have spoken against the harsh, imperial Roman rule, but instead told his followers to give unto Caesar what is his.

Not that I'm completely taking clirus' side here, but that leaves out an awful lot of context. Everyone quotes "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's", but hardly ever do they continue on to the second half: "and unto God, that which is God's".

Tiberius Caesar (whose portrait was on the coin under discussion) claimed to be a god, and according to him, EVERYTHING was his. The Jews, on the other hand, believed that God was God, and everything was his. It wasn't a sarcastic question, it was a very clear and frank challenge for the listeners to choose their allegiance, to God or to Caesar.

He never actually said that anyone should pay taxes to any particular ruler or state, because he never defined what, if anything, actually belonged to Caesar. And one can hardly assume that Caesar owns everything that Caesar claims, simply by virtue of his being Caesar and having laid his claws on it.
 
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clirus

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Christ didn't advocate any system of government. I'm sure if Christ wanted to be a political advocate, he would have spoken against the harsh, imperial Roman rule, but instead told his followers to give unto Caesar what is his.

Clirus, a system of government cannot inherently be good or evil... no more than a tablespoon could be. You have a lot of passion and feeling about this, but it is misplaced.

Government is not inherently good or evil, but the government will be controlled by people that are good or evil.

When the government is controlled by evil people, the government will be evil by advocating evil activities like inappropriate contentography, abortion and homosexuality.

If democrats are in control of the government, Atheism and Socialism will be advocated by the government.

If Republicans are in control of the government, Christianity and Capitalism will be advocated by the government.

Even with the Republicans in control of the government, I am concerned because Christians do not participate in becoming candidates for office.

The Atheists would like to see Romney as the Republican presidential candidate, but I would never vote for Romney until he renounced his actions in Mass. that produced homosexual marriage and a state universal health care system. Romney is what I consider to be a Liberal Christian.

Nothing belongs to Caesar, but I believe in paying taxes when the money is used to protect good people and punish evil people.
 
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clirus

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"I believe God requires every Christian to be missionaries, but I believe missionaries need to present the gospel without bringing a sandwich"

I can't even begin to describe how utterly appalling that whole post was.

Let me guess. You are SOUTHERN Baptist by chance? The only Christian church that refused to participate in the city-wide interfaith group my father helped organize that included not only sharing the gospel but helping people learn to read, learn to help each other, provide for childcare and yes, feed them and clothe them.

That explains a lot.

It also relieves me of having to read anymore of your ignorant railing against the very least of these HIS brothers.

As you do unto them.

Although I am a member of a Southern Baptist Church, but I refer to myself as being an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist. I believe Southern Baptist are too liberal and too much into the type of social ministry that you seemed to describe.

I do not believe social ministries nor Socialism work for the following reasons.

1) Socialism/social ministries is giving a man a fish and Christianity is teaching a man to fish.

2) Socialism sustains a person, but allows the person to avoid the process of examining them self and removing any sin that could be causing their poverty/problem. Becoming a Christian requires a person renounce the past sinful lifestyle and then God forgives all past sin.

I define a Christian as a person that accepts Jesus Christ as Lord/Savior and commits to following the commandments/doctrines of the Bible.

3) Socialism requires stealing from the most to give to the few. Which brings up the question of how your social ministry was funded. If it was funded by a church that was great that people were willing to provide personal charity, but not so good if the funding was from a government program.

Do you believe social ministries work in the sense that people get out of poverty?

Do you believe illegitimate children are a major problem that produce poverty?

Would you support an Absolute Paternity Law that would execute a father that failed to provide for his child (under a three strikes and you are out concept)?
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Clirus, I notice you are avoiding my question:

To verify that there is, in fact, a significant association between two categorical variables, such as Atheism and 'disease, death and destruction', you would need to set a p value (usually 0.05 in behavioural sciences), determine a research paradigm, and then conduct a Chi-square test for independence and relatedness on the data ascertained. And even then, your results and their interpretation would be open to severe scrutiny due to the high possibility of extraneous variables accounting for apparently significant results.

So I wonder... how much empirical research have you done to conclude that "Atheistic activity does lead to disease, death, destruction and poverty", or in other words, that there is a statistically significant correlation between Atheism and disease, death, destruction and poverty???*

* Keeping in mind that correlation too does not necessarily imply causation.
** Keeping in mind that statical significance testing is an important component of empirical research.

Until you can prove it substantially and statistically... you're just speculating. And while you're speculating, there is no compelling reason to believe your claim to be true.
 
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Alexander Nevsky

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Socialism - An Evil Concept

Socialism is one of the great evil concepts because it represents robbing from everyone (including the rich) and giving to the poor. I have never seen any valid justification of robbing from everyone (including the rich) to give to the poor.

For every rich person there are thousands, millions and even billions of people who die starving. The rich people consume each as much as a whole city or maybe a whole country in the Third World. Isn’t that robbing? Think about it.

The bread you store up belongs to the hungry; the cloak that lies in your chest belongs to the naked; the gold you have hidden in the ground belongs to the poor.
[FONT=&quot]St. Basil the Great

[/FONT]
 
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peadar1987

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Nothing belongs to Caesar, but I believe in paying taxes when the money is used to protect good people and punish evil people.

You've stated before that you consider me to be evil. How would I be punished by your Christian Utopia? Death?
 
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Drekkan85

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You've stated before that you consider me to be evil. How would I be punished by your Christian Utopia? Death?

Well I'm Church of England so death is a little extreme... How about some tea and cake?
 
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Greeble

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"Socialism/social ministries is giving a man a fish and Christianity is teaching a man to fish."

Uh, no, *your* style of "Christianity" teaches about Christ, and nothing else. Not reading, not fishing, not anything. And the man, who cannot fish, watches his children (whom you care nothing about) starve.


"Becoming a Christian requires a person renounce the past sinful lifestyle and then God forgives all past sin."


Why do you insist on denying the existence of poor Christians? Are you making this up or is some "preacher" feeding you this pack of lies?


"I define a Christian as a person that accepts Jesus Christ as Lord/Savior and commits to following the commandments/doctrines of the Bible."

Unless they live in poverty, in which case you pronounce them to be atheists. (or maybe it is that aforementioned preacher of lies)

"Which brings up the question of how your social ministry was funded."

Oh, so if the United Methodist ChurchBoard of Global ministries does it it is ok to give a man a sandwich when before you said it was bad?

"Do you believe social ministries work in the sense that people get out of poverty?"

Hello, I saw it. I have lived in three countries and been through almost every country in the western hemisphere. You get your information from some preacher of lies.

"Do you believe illegitimate children are a major problem that produce poverty? "

oh yes, because evil people punish the woman for being single by denying any assistance, thereby forcing all those children to live in poverty.

But what makes you think most people in poverty have illegitimate children? So many are married and have too many because their religion (Christianity btw) forbids the use of birth control. What about them?

Oh right, I forget, they are poor and therefore by your definition, not Christian. So it is ok to allow them and their children to live their entire lives in suffering.

"Would you support an Absolute Paternity Law that would execute a father that failed to provide for his child (under a three strikes and you are out concept)?"

I don't believe in using the death penalty.

There are paternity laws. Guess what. If the father lives in poverty he won't be able to pay.

You want to make poverty a capital crime.

And I bet you are under the delusion you are "Pro life"


Typical of proponents of the Heresy of Prosperity (aka "Gospel" of Prosperity)
 
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Nathan Poe

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I believe Southern Baptist are too liberal and too much into the type of social ministry that you seemed to describe.

Not surprising.

1) Socialism/social ministries is giving a man a fish and Christianity is teaching a man to fish.

And you're about executing men who can't fish.

2) Socialism sustains a person, but allows the person to avoid the process of examining them self and removing any sin that could be causing their poverty/problem. Becoming a Christian requires a person renounce the past sinful lifestyle and then God forgives all past sin.

Getting executed under your government doesn't do much for self-examination, either.

I define a Christian as a person that accepts Jesus Christ as Lord/Savior and commits to following the commandments/doctrines of the Bible.

So, which doctrine mentions killing the poor?

3) Socialism requires stealing from the most to give to the few. Which brings up the question of how your social ministry was funded. If it was funded by a church that was great that people were willing to provide personal charity, but not so good if the funding was from a government program.

Yo've already mentioned that you don't like the program when it comes from a church either.

Do you believe social ministries work in the sense that people get out of poverty?

It gives a hand to those who need it most, yes.

Do you believe illegitimate children are a major problem that produce poverty?

One of many problems.

Would you support an Absolute Paternity Law that would execute a father that failed to provide for his child (under a three strikes and you are out concept)?

No, that's your sickness, nobody else's.
 
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