0 x 0 = 0

[SiderealExalt]

You probably wont. P_F's whole 0x0=atheism is exactly one thing, nonsensical.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

I’ve seen you mention the Casimir effect before – that it demonstrates something coming from nothing. Is that entirely accurate?

Correct me if I misunderstand, but isn’t “something” required to achieve the effect – at least two metal plates or mirrors, an attracting force, a vacuum, and a rational mind to arrange them orderly?

They are required to demonstrate the effect to us macroscopic humans, yes. But the point is that the effect occurs even if the plates are removed and the equipment dismantled. The Casimir effect is a by-product of particle-antiparticle pairs popping into (and then out of) existence, completely spontaneously. Hawking radiation can be seen as another example of where this otherwise negligible phenomenon can be observed (though Hawking radiation has yet to be observed itself ).

Observing something coming from nothing at this point in time is impossible in this universe, because every “thing” (including forces) in the universe is something, the universe itself is something, and it’s all already here.

Something coming from nothing requires there to be such a thing as “nothing”. We have no idea if “nothing” is possible, we can’t imagine a place or time where “nothing” could be. We can’t even comprehensively define the word “nothing”.

We can define it, insofar as it is not a thing at all, but an absence of anything. If there is something, then there is not nothingness. But saying "something from nothing" does not mean that something has travelled from one location, "nothingness", to our location, "somethingness". It means "some thing now exists which didn't exist before, and this coming-into-being was without cause (i.e., not facilitated by any heretofore extant system)".

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Actually, multiplication is defined for cheese. See, 3cheese = cheese+cheese+cheese, aka, the amount of cheese on a triple cheeseburger.

Only if "cheese" was a symbol for the amount of cheese we have. I was not using "cheese" to represent a mathematical or physical quantity.

Multiplication multiplies the units, so it always works. Addition on the other hand does. See, mass * acceleration works, mass + acceleration doesn't.

Indeed, but that's not my point.

 

[Psudopod]

As in what Atheism posits as the cause of everything. Nothing. The letters G O D may be unacceptable for an atheist or a humanist, but some thing is the origin of something else. Not nothing to something. Ever been in a lab?

Nope. At best we don't know what caused everything. We just don't believe in adding in a deity for which we have no evidence for. Cause and effect get a bit complicated when you are talking about the origins of time.

OK. Accidents bumping into other accidents for trillions of years in the dark created light and everything else we can see. Can I have my PhD now?

Nope, you have to work hard for years, demonstrate understanding and increase the sum of knowledge of the human race before you get one of those. Making unsubstaciated claims telling people what they believe don't count.

 

[cantata]

Proving the existence of a first cause is a very, very long way from proving the existence of God, anyway.

 

[Chesterton]

They are required to demonstrate the effect to us macroscopic humans, yes. But the point is that the effect occurs even if the plates are removed and the equipment dismantled.

With the plates gone, and the equipment dismantled, how is it observed/measured? Is an attracting force still present?

The Casimir effect is a by-product of particle-antiparticle pairs popping into (and then out of) existence, completely spontaneously.

Aren't you making an assumption when you say “completely spontaneously”? Perhaps it appears spontaneous because we don’t perceive it’s relation to anything else. Couldn't that change in the future?

We can define it, insofar as it is not a thing at all, but an absence of anything.

I think your definition might need a definition. What could “an absence of anything” possibly mean?

It means "some thing now exists which didn't exist before, and this coming-into-being was without cause (i.e., not facilitated by any heretofore extant system)".

Again, “without cause” is an assumption, isn’t it? I’m not saying it’s a baseless assumption; it’s based on the best we know at this time, but it is an assumption. Remember intelligent scientists once believed living maggots spontaneously generated from dead meat.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

You probably wont. P_F's whole 0x0=atheism is exactly one thing, nonsensical.

The world of political correctness. Where so many other facts are brushed aside as nonsense.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Proving the existence of a first cause is a very, very long way from proving the existence of God, anyway.

You and John.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

He was in the beginning with God.


All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Christians, gotta love their desire for thought.

 

[stan1980]

Are you going to answer my question, pf?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

You probably wont. P_F's whole 0x0=atheism is exactly one thing, nonsensical.

You know, it's hard for me to stay humble when all this ad hom does is feed my ego. I'm just a man afterall.

0 x 0 = Atheism, is a rational statement.

 

[stan1980]

You know, it's hard for me to stay humble when all this ad hom does is feed my ego. I'm just a man afterall.

0 x 0 = Atheism, is a rational statement.

Please find me where you got the idea that all atheists believe that we are the sum of 0 x 0?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Are you going to answer my question, pf?

- The piece quoted above is the only bit that matters in your usual nonsensical post. Please find me where you got the idea that all atheists believe that we are the sum of 0 x 0?-

My tiny little mind? Hmm, yeah sure, I'm gonna jump right on answering ad hom like that. How about you getting the universe out of zero and get back to me. Without the rote-vitriol of the commmon atheist mouthings.

You ask more politely and I'll respond with: Cause and effect. Just watching and listening to atheists jabber awy and it's easy to hear and see what they are and what they peddle when all of the smug elitism is washed off. You get pettty little people justifying their pitiful little choices.

Your calculator get something from nothing yet?

I don't know about you, but this is incredibly fun to me.

 

[stan1980]

My tiny little mind? Hmm, yeah sure, I'm gonna jump right on answering ad hom like that. How about you getting the universe out of zero and get back to me. Without the rote-vitriol of the commmon atheist mouthings.

You ask more politely and I'll respond with: Cause and effect. Just watching and listening to atheists jabber awy and it's easy to hear and see what they are and what they peddle when all of the smug elitism is washed off. You get pettty little people justifying their pitiful little choices.

Your calculator get something from nothing yet?

I don't know about you, but this is incredibly fun to me.

One step at a time. I'm not here to make up answers on how the universe got here, because I don't have good understanding of it. I'm comfortable with that. Now just please answer the question:

"where did you get it into your mind that all atheists believe that the universe came from nothing?"

Or can we just assume you made it up, lied if you will, and you are bearing false witness.

 

[David Brider]

0 x 0 = Atheism. Embarassing only those that hold to atheism as reasonable.

Something from nothing is not reasonable. 0 x 0 = 0.

It's Christians who believe that the universe was created from nothing - ex nihilo.

Atheists don't believe there's a supernatural cause for the origins of the universe, but that's not the same as believing that "something came from nothing".

David.

 

[selfinflikted]

He can't answer you guys' questions, because the only answer is that he's made it up. Obviously, he'll never admit that. The whole 0 x 0 = Atheism nonsense is just that - nonsense. The only thing that unites atheists is their lack of belief in the existence of deities.

Now hear this, Poly - I am an atheist and I do not know how the universe came to be. Personally, I don't care how it came to be, because it is of little consequence to how I choose to live my life. Now, having said that, can you admit that at least some atheists do not believe in your stupid little equation?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

One step at a time. I'm not here to make up answers on how the universe got here, because I don't have good understanding of it. I'm comfortable with that. Now just please answer the question:

"where did you get it into your mind that all atheists believe that the universe came from nothing?"

Or can we just assume you made it up, lied if you will, and you are bearing false witness.

Oh you hurt me so. I get my view of atheists by how they all rock like bobblehead dolls to the same stimuli.

What part of nothing creating everything don't you understand?

You guys don't have enough i o n s on your numbers for nothing to get everything here. Or do you? How many numbers with i o n s on the end of them did it take for nothing to "create" everything?

0 x 0 = atheism when all is said and done.

Hmm, a mathematical fact.

I'm sorry if it causes you cerebral discomfort to hear or see that offered up as the root of all atheism's sandy bottomed assertions.

I'm sorry pal, a sparrow is not an accident caused by another accident that was a mistake that became something improved out of the accident.

And humans are worth even more than sparrows.

Now . . . where'd I hear that before?

But if you want to believe in atheism, far be it from me to stop you. I can see how angry it makes you when challenged. I'll be going now.

 

[Tinker Grey]

0 x 0 = God ... a mathematical fact.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

0 x 0 = God ... a mathematical fact.

To an atheist maybe. Which of course proves that 0 x 0 = atheism.

The Biblical writers beat you to the punch buhbba.

God, is "one."

Hear O' Israel, the Lord our God the Lord is One.

And they came up with that without a calculator. Just facts all around them to make the assertion and come up with the correct answer.

A mathematical fact.

0 is cool but only when it represents a numerical value, and is accompanied by a number causing it to be important. At least that's what my mortgage company keeps telling me monthly.:o

 

[Polycarp_fan]

He can't answer you guys' questions, because the only answer is that he's made it up.

I made up zero? I want my money for the copyright infringements then. I'm thinking my calculator is not mocking me as you are. But it does look like it's mocking you though. Not me, I'm just siding with facts.

Obviously, he'll never admit that. The whole 0 x 0 = Atheism nonsense is just that - nonsense. The only thing that unites atheists is their lack of belief in the existence of deities.

Oh selfinflikted, we both know the club membership has more to it than that. www dot infidels and skeptics sites are far more in-depth than just rote and simplicity.

Now hear this, Poly - I am an atheist and I do not know how the universe came to be.

Redundant don't you think?

Personally, I don't care how it came to be, because it is of little consequence to how I choose to live my life.

OK, then please stay out of the way of people that do care about things. Cause and effect is important to many people. Very many people.

Now, having said that, can you admit that at least some atheists do not believe in your stupid little equation?

Which ones? you seem to prove the position true.

 

[Tinker Grey]

To an atheist maybe. Which of course proves that 0 x 0 = atheism.

To a theist, maybe. Which of course proves that 0 x 0 = God.