0 x 0 = 0

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stan1980

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I don't think many could have missed a certain person's inane ramblings on these boards over recent months (that 0 x 0 = atheism) so let's get this straight, once and for all:

zero x zero = zero... nothing else, simply zero. Anyone who says any differently is wrong.

If you're trying to say atheists all believe that the universe started from nothing, then you'd be wrong. Not only is it false presumption to begin with, even if you do use this argument, then the same ridiculous argument could be applied at God, (how did God creat herself from nothing?), and you could quite easily turn around and say 0 x 0 = theism.

I think we can all agree (well most of us), that this a bad argument that backfires, and I'm not sure how anyone could be anything but embarrassed to pedal such nonsense so many times.
 
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lawtonfogle

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I don't think many could have missed a certain person's inane ramblings on these boards over recent months (that 0 x 0 = atheism) so let's get this straight, once and for all:

zero x zero = zero... nothing else, simply zero. Anyone who says any differently is wrong.

If you're trying to say atheists all believe that the universe started from nothing, then you'd be wrong. Not only is it false presumption to begin with, even if you do use this argument, then the same ridiculous argument could be applied at God, (how did God creat herself from nothing?), and you could quite easily turn around and say 0 x 0 = theism.

I think we can all agree (well most of us), that this a bad argument that backfires, and I'm not sure how anyone could be anything but embarrassed to pedal such nonsense so many times.

If a x b = c
Then
a = c / b

Now, let a, b, c = 0.

so, if 0 * 0 = 0
then 0 = 0 / 0.

Is this true?
 
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stan1980

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If a x b = c
Then
a = c / b

Now, let a, b, c = 0.

so, if 0 * 0 = 0
then 0 = 0 / 0.

Is this true?

It has been a while since I studied the exciting realms of imaginary numbers at college, and to be honest, I've forgotten most of what I learnt, but dividing a number by zero produces an imaginary number (I think).

Regardless, 0 * 0 = 0 , so lets stick to that for now ;)

It's an interesting problem though, I think it has something to do with the fact zero can be both a real and imaginary number, but my further mathematics text books got lost (binned) a long time ago!
 
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Wiccan_Child

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If a x b = c
Then
a = c / b

Now, let a, b, c = 0.

so, if 0 * 0 = 0
then 0 = 0 / 0.

Is this true?
No, because "If a * b = c, then a = c / b" is only true if b isn't zero. Just as multiplication isn't defined for cheese (What is three times cheese? Motorbike multiplied by house?), so too is division not defined for zero.

To the OP: I agree. Using mathematics to support the claim that "Nothing comes from nothing" is flawed in two ways: a) the mathematics has nothing to do with real life, and b) something can come from nothing (Casimir effect, anyone?).
 
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Chesterton

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something can come from nothing (Casimir effect, anyone?).

I’ve seen you mention the Casimir effect before – that it demonstrates something coming from nothing. Is that entirely accurate?

Correct me if I misunderstand, but isn’t “something” required to achieve the effect – at least two metal plates or mirrors, an attracting force, a vacuum, and a rational mind to arrange them orderly?

Observing something coming from nothing at this point in time is impossible in this universe, because every “thing” (including forces) in the universe is something, the universe itself is something, and it’s all already here.

Something coming from nothing requires there to be such a thing as “nothing”. We have no idea if “nothing” is possible, we can’t imagine a place or time where “nothing” could be. We can’t even comprehensively define the word “nothing”.
 
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stan1980

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All I'm asking is that we maintain some degree of organization in our thinking before we post. The same goes for the OP.
Thanks in advance.

Barely a post goes by before you make some outlandish claim (this is a rare occasion where you haven't). It would be nice if you could provide sources in future, but I wont hold my breath.
 
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allhart

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I don't think many could have missed a certain person's inane ramblings on these boards over recent months (that 0 x 0 = atheism) so let's get this straight, once and for all:

zero x zero = zero... nothing else, simply zero. Anyone who says any differently is wrong.

If you're trying to say atheists all believe that the universe started from nothing, then you'd be wrong. Not only is it false presumption to begin with, even if you do use this argument, then the same ridiculous argument could be applied at God, (how did God creat herself from nothing?), and you could quite easily turn around and say 0 x 0 = theism.

I think we can all agree (well most of us), that this a bad argument that backfires, and I'm not sure how anyone could be anything but embarrassed to pedal such nonsense so many times.
No,but to say all religions are the same. Is equally saying your God. So you are equal to God,therefore; there is a canceling out God. Which have an effect in reality (equaling zero)
 
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TuxThePenguin

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It has been a while since I studied the exciting realms of imaginary numbers at college, and to be honest, I've forgotten most of what I learnt, but dividing a number by zero produces an imaginary number (I think).

Regardless, 0 * 0 = 0 , so lets stick to that for now ;)

It's an interesting problem though, I think it has something to do with the fact zero can be both a real and imaginary number, but my further mathematics text books got lost (binned) a long time ago!

IIRC the main component of imaginary numbers is J which is the square root of -1.
My favourite use is in fractals. For example...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set

As to the OP. as far as I am aware mathematics is used to describe pattens found in nature (for example the Fibonacci series) To model the forces at work in physics (gravity,friction, the action of moving bodies) and the ability to count (make sure you got 13 loaves at the bakers). However it has never been used to describe or proscribe on moral or existential issues.
 
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allhart

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I don't think many could have missed a certain person's inane ramblings on these boards over recent months (that 0 x 0 = atheism) so let's get this straight, once and for all:

zero x zero = zero... nothing else, simply zero. Anyone who says any differently is wrong.

If you're trying to say atheists all believe that the universe started from nothing, then you'd be wrong. Not only is it false presumption to begin with, even if you do use this argument, then the same ridiculous argument could be applied at God, (how did God creat herself from nothing?), and you could quite easily turn around and say 0 x 0 = theism.

I think we can all agree (well most of us), that this a bad argument that backfires, and I'm not sure how anyone could be anything but embarrassed to pedal such nonsense so many times.
You are finite.You will never have the full spectrum of ultimate wisdom. For example to walk around N.Y. sky scrappers you look up to see a massive out look, but get in a plane and look down. You Get a different out look. In saying this, To Know all of who God in which makes him God ,so you would be a God. That can't be.He is past, presence and the future.He can see all that in being omnipresent.As you being in the plane,however; his insight is much higher and a lot better than 20/20.
 
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Polycarp_fan

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I don't think many could have missed a certain person's inane ramblings on these boards over recent months (that 0 x 0 = atheism) so let's get this straight, once and for all:

Aspirin or ibuprofen can ease your cognitive dissonance headache. They also have meds for sleepness nights, as obviously this has been nagging you.

zero x zero = zero... nothing else, simply zero.

As in what Atheism posits as the cause of everything. Nothing. The letters G O D may be unacceptable for an atheist or a humanist, but some thing is the origin of something else. Not nothing to something. Ever been in a lab?

Anyone who says any differently is wrong.

You are a new deity are you? Such an absolute and finite a statement. Show how nothing can do something?

If you're trying to say atheists all believe that the universe started from nothing, then you'd be wrong.

OK. Accidents bumping into other accidents for trillions of years in the dark created light and everything else we can see. Can I have my PhD now?

Not only is it false presumption to begin with, even if you do use this argument, then the same ridiculous argument could be applied at God,

If G O D actually meant N O T H I N G. But it doesn't. God means the force that created everything WE CAN see. And even what we can't. It didn't get there by nothing either.

(how did God creat herself from nothing?),

And that is the sum total of atheist contemplation.

How about what created time? As in T I M E.

If God exists outside of His creation, then the picture is quite easy to see. And forever seems to be the very quest of human beings. "I want to love you forever."

"I want this feeling to last forever."

"Ours is an eternal love."

Etc., etc..

Most people have an inherent feeling for forever. How did that get there?

and you could quite easily turn around and say 0 x 0 = theism.

How stupid is that? Theism and/or Deism makes sense, both logically and sensibly. 1 x 1 = 1. Or, as is the case with human beings 1 x 1 x 1 = 1. You can't be you without your mom and dad and they can't be either of them without you.

I think . . .

Where's the proof?

we can all agree (well most of us), that this a bad argument that backfires, and I'm not sure how anyone could be anything but embarrassed to pedal such nonsense so many times.

0 x 0 = Atheism. Embarassing only those that hold to atheism as reasonable.

Something from nothing is not reasonable. 0 x 0 = 0. And as we can all see, (well most of us) we are not the sum of 0 x 0. Not any single one us, or all of us.

Dr. Polycarp_fan.

I like the ring to it.
 
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lawtonfogle

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It has been a while since I studied the exciting realms of imaginary numbers at college, and to be honest, I've forgotten most of what I learnt, but dividing a number by zero produces an imaginary number (I think).

Regardless, 0 * 0 = 0 , so lets stick to that for now ;)

It's an interesting problem though, I think it has something to do with the fact zero can be both a real and imaginary number, but my further mathematics text books got lost (binned) a long time ago!

Not quite. Imaginary numbers are the result of the even root of a -number. Or more so, what times itself results in negative. Can't be negative or positive, being that +*+=+ and -*-=+.
 
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lawtonfogle

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No, because "If a * b = c, then a = c / b" is only true if b isn't zero. Just as multiplication isn't defined for cheese (What is three times cheese? Motorbike multiplied by house?), so too is division not defined for zero.

To the OP: I agree. Using mathematics to support the claim that "Nothing comes from nothing" is flawed in two ways: a) the mathematics has nothing to do with real life, and b) something can come from nothing (Casimir effect, anyone?).


Actually, multiplication is defined for cheese. See, 3cheese = cheese+cheese+cheese, aka, the amount of cheese on a triple cheeseburger.

Multiplication multiplies the units, so it always works. Addition on the other hand does. See, mass * acceleration works, mass + acceleration doesn't.
 
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lawtonfogle

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I’ve seen you mention the Casimir effect before – that it demonstrates something coming from nothing. Is that entirely accurate?

Correct me if I misunderstand, but isn’t “something” required to achieve the effect – at least two metal plates or mirrors, an attracting force, a vacuum, and a rational mind to arrange them orderly?

Observing something coming from nothing at this point in time is impossible in this universe, because every “thing” (including forces) in the universe is something, the universe itself is something, and it’s all already here.

Something coming from nothing requires there to be such a thing as “nothing”. We have no idea if “nothing” is possible, we can’t imagine a place or time where “nothing” could be. We can’t even comprehensively define the word “nothing”.


The whole metal plate deal is how we measure it. Quite like a how a magnet produces a magnetic field, we just need certain types of metal to actually see the effect of it, except in this case the magnet is nothingness. Though I think at the fundamental level, it challenges the diea of nothingness, and in some senses of the word at least, says nothingness doesn't exist, than in a vacuum, something is out there, just it is quite abnormal compared to stuff we encounter every day.
 
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stan1980

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They also have meds for sleepness nights, as obviously this has been nagging you.

Your logic, intellect and false premises nag at me.


0 x 0 = Atheism. Embarassing only those that hold to atheism as reasonable.

Something from nothing is not reasonable. 0 x 0 = 0. And as we can all see, (well most of us) we are not the sum of 0 x 0. Not any single one us, or all of us.

The piece quoted above is the only bit that matters in your usual nonsensical post. Please find me where you got the idea <staff edit> that all atheists believe that we are the sum of 0 x 0?
 
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