religulous?!

[ravendta]

Like I thought, you have nothing to go on so you spout ad hom hyperbole. You can in fact admit that you're wrong. It'll probably save you time.

If that's what you'd like to believe, go for it. You refuse to participate in a debate through PM, so there's little more I can do for you.

Edit: Just noticed the quote under your name. Amusing, to say the least.

 

[Caduceus]

Using technology doesn't mean we somehow believe in evolotion. How you come to THAT conclusion, I have no clue.

Whilst I have no intention to start another creation/evolution debate - your reply seems to sum up the view of many creationists. Science provides everything that gives you your present quality of life. If you are sick, do you only rely on prayer or do you seek the advice of a physician? If your car needs some work do you go to the clergy for a service (pun deliberate ) or do you go to a mechanic? If your heating/AC system breaks down to you seek out a relevant verse in the Bible or do you call a heating engineer? I could go on and on but I hope I've made my point.

It appears that creationists are quite happy to accept every scientific theory and the benefits derived from those theories except one and that is the theory of evolution. This appears to result from the anthropocentric notion that humans are somehow 'special' and unique from other animals. Yet alas, we aren't. We are not the apogee of some creator's plan - we are simply another species that will, eventually, evolve (or die out).

The bottom line is that neither side can ultimately prove their point, thus both are beliefs rather than proven facts.

Wrong. Evolution has been demonstrated time and time again. Why do you and I share genes with every living organism on the planet? Why, if we were designed, did the designer not make our jaw big enough to accommodate all our teeth, or give us a better eye (i.e. one that has no 'blind spot')?

Yes, science has explained a lot, but who says that they aren't simply explaining how God created those things to work?

See my above comment. If these things were created - the creator didn't make a very good job of it. It also begs the question what created the creator (and so on ad infinitum)

For that matter, who says that science is right? So many people take scientists at their words as if they are perfect and never make an error.

Science is testable. If scientific theories are wrong they can be tested and demonstrated to be wrong. I don't think anyone in science regards themselves as inerrant.

Yet when dealing with scientific calculations, even a .000000001 percent of an error would quickly compound over the alleged billions of years the universe has existed, making any of their assumptions unreliable.

Explain please - you can teach us the Maths as you go along!

I'm not trying to start another creationism vs evolution debate here, I'm simply saying that as crazy and unfathomable as a belief in God may seem to atheists, the opposite is just as crazy and unfathomable to believers. Why is it that believers are the "crazy" ones when neither side can completely prove themselves?

Who says all evolutionists are atheists?

 

[ravendta]

And as I said before, a little bit of online or library research will also find scientific findings against evolution and supporting the Bible. Both sides have evidence if you look for it.

To further the discussion, which I'll be happy to do, PM me. This is a movie forum and I'm trying to keep this thread from being hijacked any further.

 

[Jonteel]

Well, you can't blame them for making fun of us Christians. You can’t make fun of the Jews (that would show clearly that you were a Nazi) and you can't make fun of the Blacks. That would make you a white supremicist (Nazi). So, they HAVE to make fun of someone, so they do. That's what they do. It defines them. They feel Christians are stupid, and they are smart. We are undermenshen. That is a term made popular by Nazis during the second world war and it is German for under men. These Undermenshen included Jews, Russians, Slavs, and anyone who wasn't ARyan.

Hitler spent a lot of time kissing up to certain Christian leaders. After all, his army was mostly Christian and he needed to have his soldiers follow him. But, privately (and we have proof of this) he felt that Christianity was the biggest joke ever played on man.

Michael Medved, a jewish film critic, speaking about how Hollywood depictions of Christians, said that he hasn't seen any persecution that was similar to this since Hitler made films about the Jews in the 1940s.

On the other hand, I want to see the movie American Carol In it a fellow is transformed after seeing three ghosts (like Ebeneezer Scrooge) on Christmas eve.

 

[Tenka]

I can appreciate Bill's position. He lives in a country where despite good standards of education a massive number hold beliefs that mostly expired 100-200 years ago elsewhere. In addition, no leader can hope to be elected without ferverently professing to believe ancient Judaic mythology as loudly and as often as possible. The way they can use the phrase "doing God's work" in the context of going to war without being marched out of office at sword point is frightening enough.
That said, I'm not terribly interested in seeing the movie and I'm sure that this, like a Dawkins novel, with recieve far more attention from Christians than atheists.

Well, you can't blame them for making fun of us Christians. You can’t make fun of the Jews (that would show clearly that you were a Nazi) and you can't make fun of the Blacks. That would make you a white supremicist (Nazi). So, they HAVE to make fun of someone, so they do. That's what they do. It defines them. They feel Christians are stupid, and they are smart. We are undermenshen. That is a term made popular by Nazis during the second world war and it is German for under men. These Undermenshen included Jews, Russians, Slavs, and anyone who wasn't ARyan.

Hitler spent a lot of time kissing up to certain Christian leaders. After all, his army was mostly Christian and he needed to have his soldiers follow him. But, privately (and we have proof of this) he felt that Christianity was the biggest joke ever played on man.

Michael Medved, a jewish film critic, speaking about how Hollywood depictions of Christians, said that he hasn't seen any persecution that was similar to this since Hitler made films about the Jews in the 1940s.

The idea that you would compare the situation of American Christians to Nazi era Jews is so mind bogglingly absurd no filter safe term can encapsulate it.

 

[Kelly]

Jesus was mocked. Along with the physical punishment, he took it all for us. So, brothers and sisters, don't feel insulted or harmed by movies like this.

 

[Kalimar]

I agreed with Maher's thesis up until he got to Islam. He focused on Muslim aggression toward the west as being based in religion, not out of anti-Imperialism. It is a combination of both, but their actions toward the west's intervention -- I need only cite the Balfour Declaration, or the installation of Mohammed Reza Pahlavi, the support of the House of Saud as examples... etc...

Maher reduces their actions (Muslims) to ones spawned only out of their religion.
Sorry Maher -- wrong. There is a political component to it, a very big political component to it. Is this also why you will criticize George W. Bush and Ahmadinejad and yet not Ariel Sharon and his own views regarding Zionism?

At any rate, Maher also stumbles on this idea that freedom of religion is both good, and bad, but ultimately opts for the latter conclusion and diminishes the former to Sir Karl Popper's paradox of tolerance.

An entertaining movie, and certainly a strong case, it just has holes in it (mostly concerning the politics of the middle east).

 

[Jonteel]

Actually, I didn't originally make the statement about Christians being like the Jews in the 1940's, Michael Medved did.

Let's look at a few movies that make Christians that portray Christians as evil.
No, we should not do that. You have given me an epiphany.

 

[RecentConvert]

Whilst I have no intention to start another creation/evolution debate - your reply seems to sum up the view of many creationists. Science provides everything that gives you your present quality of life. If you are sick, do you only rely on prayer or do you seek the advice of a physician? If your car needs some work do you go to the clergy for a service (pun deliberate ) or do you go to a mechanic? If your heating/AC system breaks down to you seek out a relevant verse in the Bible or do you call a heating engineer? I could go on and on but I hope I've made my point.

It appears that creationists are quite happy to accept every scientific theory and the benefits derived from those theories except one and that is the theory of evolution. This appears to result from the anthropocentric notion that humans are somehow 'special' and unique from other animals. Yet alas, we aren't. We are not the apogee of some creator's plan - we are simply another species that will, eventually, evolve (or die out).

While this subject is certainly off-topic for a thread like this, the sad reality is that the appropriate forum has now been forbidden to those who would most use it...

I will only add that, in all fairness to creationists, they also reject modern astronomy, geology, paleontology, anthropology and whatever else I have forgotten, as well as certain interpretations from genetics, embryology and whatever else I've left out.

Back to the actual topic at hand, I thought it was a very funny movie. It may be important to understand that, like the Daily Show, it's a comedy piece, albeit with a theme. Many of the "jokes" of the movie are provided by the interview subjects themselves rather than by Bill Maher. This is done to both emphasize the inherent humour in many aspects of many religions as well as to avoid attacking the interview subjects.

I wonder what the interview subjects knew of the movie they were to star in. Does anyone have any news on this?

 

[Caduceus]

Jesus was mocked. Along with the physical punishment, he took it all for us. So, brothers and sisters, don't feel insulted or harmed by movies like this.

Yes but to listen to Christians you'd think he was the only person ever to suffer crucifixion. He wasn't, and he certainly wasn't the only Jew to die in this manner!

 

[blockbruiser]

"Methinks the lady doth protest too much" W.S. in Hamlet Why would you deny that film paints Christians as evil? Christians all agree that the film industry rips them regularly. Are you a christian?
Mayhap, you have never noticed anyone saying anything bad because you find no fault with the characterization of Christians as stupid, evil, nasty, creatures.
You grow angry that a Jew (Medved) makes the comparison between Hitler and the film media. This anger prompts you to use foul language. This is disportionate to the statement. After all, he isn't talking about you, he is talking about those Nazi-like individuals who need to portray Christians the way that Nazis portrayed the Jews.
"Methinks the lady doth protest too much" W.S. in Hamlet

 

[Paulos23]

I watched this movie Friday night. I never laughed so hard. Some of the responses to his questions were priceless!

I would not recommend this movie for those of you that are thin skinned about criticisms about your religion (and not many religions escape in this movie). But the message in the ending is something I wish everyone would see.

 

[Cyberdingo]

You can’t make fun of the Jews (that would show clearly that you were a Nazi)

Actually I heard he does make fun of Judiasm, along with just about every other major religion. He didn't restrict himself to Christianity.

 

[Elife3]

I hear it's openly sacrilege. I don't really plan on seeing it, either.

 

[12ogue]

Regardless, I'm seeing it. I find Bill Maher posing very interesting questions about the status of fundamental Christianity and the behaviors of many of them. Argue if you want, but Bill Maher is one of those atheists who I would love to discuss with, because he's very intelligent and knows quite a bit about what he's talking about. Unlike the grouchy Christopher Hitchens, who would probably get mad if someone proves him wrong, Maher seems to be open to all interpretations of religion.

Also, his comments about Jerry Falwell's death can never be more right. I applauded his "commemoration" to the late fundamentalist leader. Mind you, I think it's important that Christianity gets criticized because from there we learn more about it.