The REAL shame of creationism: its fradulent spokemen

EnemyPartyII

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2006
11,524
893
38
✟20,084.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
In Relationship
The problem of "academic" (and I use the term loosely) fraud within the Creationist discipline really isn't that much different than serious academic disciplines in actual hard sciences.

The problem, frankly, is trying to force science on what is really a branch of philosophy and theology. All of the various hypotheses can't even be tested by scientific method. I think that Creationists do a disservice by attempting to pretend that the study is a "science" when there are, perhaps, more forceful advocates from other disciplines.

Plus...there is the issue not constrained to Creationism where someone has to have a PhD to be considered smart on the issue. That is a problem with the public at large.
I don't have a problem with creationists saying things that are, effectively, philosophies, or putting forward untestable hypothesise that are not based on any empirical evidence. No problem at all.

The problem I have is when they do precisely this, and then CLAIM that it IS science, and further more, science that is superior to the empirical observation type science that gives us pharmaceuticals and nuclear power and agrarian revolutions and so on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheManeki
Upvote 0

Baggins

Senior Veteran
Mar 8, 2006
4,789
474
At Sea
✟14,982.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Labour
Holding science to a higher Standard, means holding science to a higher level of accountability. With God replaced by Mother Nature, all sorts of junk science (like global warming) can be trumped up.


AV the earth is warming, that is unvarnished truth however much you don't want to believe it.

You don't hold science to a higher standard than anyone, you don't use science you scarcely understand what it is and how it works.

What you do hold to is a belief that your own personal interpretation of the bible is more correct than reality, that is just sad.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,664
51,417
Guam
✟4,896,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
What you do hold to is a belief that your own personal interpretation of the bible is more correct than reality, that is just sad.

Who gave you that reality that you use to claim He doesn't exist, Baggins?
 
Upvote 0

peter22

Senior Member
May 15, 2007
541
28
✟8,330.00
Faith
Buddhist
Holding science to a higher Standard, means holding science to a higher level of accountability. With God replaced by Mother Nature, all sorts of junk science (like global warming) can be trumped up.
Global warming is rubbish is it? Why would anyone expect you to believe established blatantly obvious fact? I mean you *are* a creationist.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Baggins

Senior Veteran
Mar 8, 2006
4,789
474
At Sea
✟14,982.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Labour
Who gave you that reality that you use to claim He doesn't exist, Baggins?

No one, that is my personal belief.

Just as your belief that god does exist and created reality is your personal belief.

My belief conforms to reality rather better than yours though because you believe that a book written by Bronze age nomads trumps your senses, and I believe that my senses and the findings of modern science trump the musings of bronze age goat herders.
 
Upvote 0

TemperateSeaIsland

Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi
Aug 7, 2005
3,195
171
Wales, UK
✟21,785.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
No one, that is my personal belief.

Just as your belief that god does exist and created reality is your personal belief.

My belief conforms to reality rather better than yours though because you believe that a book written by Bronze age nomads trumps your senses, and I believe that my senses and the findings of modern science trump the musings of bronze age goat herders.

To be perfectly honest the bible was written by priests. If it had been written by goat herders it probably would have been more accurate as they probably knew that grasshoppers/locusts had more than 4 legs and rabbits didn't chew the cud. The priests were to busy chowing down on the burnt offerings to know much about the natural world.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,664
51,417
Guam
✟4,896,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
No one, that is my personal belief.

Just as your belief that god does exist and created reality is your personal belief.

My belief conforms to reality rather better than yours though because you believe that a book written by Bronze age nomads trumps your senses, and I believe that my senses and the findings of modern science trump the musings of bronze age goat herders.

These "Bronze age nomads and goat herders" as you call them were the world's elite intellectuals. It is said that within a short period of the Babylonian Captivity, they were teaching Babylonian history and customs to the Babylonians in their Babylonian universities.
Their military stratagems were second to none. By making their farm tools out of brass, instead of bronze, they could switch these instruments into military armament at a moment's notice; and although they weren't as fast as our Minutemen, it's because our Minutemen were able to keep their armament apart from their farm implements. Thus, while appearing to be a pastoral, sheepish nation, and seemingly having "Invade Me" written on every city's signpost, they were the world's true shock-and-awe artists --- and still are.

! JERUSALEM !
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,850,664
51,417
Guam
✟4,896,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
To be perfectly honest the bible was written by priests. If it had been written by goat herders it probably would have been more accurate as they probably knew that grasshoppers/locusts had more than 4 legs and rabbits didn't chew the cud. The priests were to busy chowing down on the burnt offerings to know much about the natural world.

To be perfectly honest, the Bible was written by God. It is "scientists" today who don't know about four-legged locusts and hares that chewed their cud; not to mention satyrs, unicorns, behemoths, leviathans, and fowled bats.

What does Gracchus call that? Projection?

You guys don't know it, so you think they didn't know it, either.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

thaumaturgy

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2006
7,541
882
✟12,333.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
To be perfectly honest, the Bible was written by God. It is "scientists" today who don't know about four-legged locusts and hares that chewed their cud; not to mention satyrs, unicorns, behemoths, leviathans, and fowled bats.

Not to burst your bubble, but I will contend that YOU don't know about cud chewing hares, 4-legged insects, unicorns, leviathans or behemoths either. YOU have just READ about them in a book that looks, for all intents and purposes like ANY OTHER myth book in the history of humanity.

The only difference is, YOU have started to believe that this myth book above all others is REAL because someone told you it was.

That is a subtle difference, and since subtlety and introspective analysis is something you aren't into, it looks TO YOU like some deep thinking and intense philosophical truth.

Appareances are everything in this game. That's why you like the appearance of flexible words like "embedded history" and "digital first editions of 17th century books".

You have to understand that words and concepts have technical meanings before you can ever move onto an adult appreciation of thought and philosophy.

Fundamentalism thrives only where thought is extinguished.
 
Upvote 0

thaumaturgy

Well-Known Member
Nov 17, 2006
7,541
882
✟12,333.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
These "Bronze age nomads and goat herders" as you call them were the world's elite intellectuals.

No, you just sanctify Ignorance. That may be your true idol of worship. Fundamentalists appear to worship willful ignorance. Otherwise you wouldn't have to tap dance so hard around "embedded history" to make your myths align with physical reality.

Maybe Fundamentalists should take holy "Ignorance" down from the altar of their worship and replace it with honest investigation and questions.

But that would require a lot more work and we all know how intellectually lazy Fundamentalists can be.
 
Upvote 0

trivista

Regular Member
Nov 22, 2006
359
27
✟15,657.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
These "Bronze age nomads and goat herders" as you call them were the world's elite intellectuals. It is said that within a short period of the Babylonian Captivity, they were teaching Babylonian history and customs to the Babylonians in their Babylonian universities.
Their military stratagems were second to none. By making their farm tools out of brass, instead of bronze, they could switch these instruments into military armament at a moment's notice; and although they weren't as fast as our Minutemen, it's because our Minutemen were able to keep their armament apart from their farm implements. Thus, while appearing to be a pastoral, sheepish nation, and seemingly having "Invade Me" written on every city's signpost, they were the world's true shock-and-awe artists --- and still are.

! JERUSALEM !
Then why didn't they develop modern medicine and semiconductor technology?
 
Upvote 0

Baggins

Senior Veteran
Mar 8, 2006
4,789
474
At Sea
✟14,982.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Labour
These "Bronze age nomads and goat herders" as you call them were the world's elite intellectuals. It is said that within a short period of the Babylonian Captivity, they were teaching Babylonian history and customs to the Babylonians in their Babylonian universities.
Their military stratagems were second to none. By making their farm tools out of brass, instead of bronze, they could switch these instruments into military armament at a moment's notice; and although they weren't as fast as our Minutemen, it's because our Minutemen were able to keep their armament apart from their farm implements. Thus, while appearing to be a pastoral, sheepish nation, and seemingly having "Invade Me" written on every city's signpost, they were the world's true shock-and-awe artists --- and still are.

! JERUSALEM !

Mains of Usan, Tayside :thumbsup:
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Baggins

Senior Veteran
Mar 8, 2006
4,789
474
At Sea
✟14,982.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Labour
These "Bronze age nomads and goat herders" as you call them were the world's elite intellectuals. It is said that within a short period of the Babylonian Captivity, they were teaching Babylonian history and customs to the Babylonians in their Babylonian universities.
Their military stratagems were second to none. By making their farm tools out of brass, instead of bronze, they could switch these instruments into military armament at a moment's notice; and although they weren't as fast as our Minutemen, it's because our Minutemen were able to keep their armament apart from their farm implements. Thus, while appearing to be a pastoral, sheepish nation, and seemingly having "Invade Me" written on every city's signpost, they were the world's true shock-and-awe artists --- and still are.

! JERUSALEM !

! Llanddeusant !

In Wales!!!!!

If their military strategems were second to none what were they doing in captivity Babylon anyway?

Seems to me they were a second rate bunch of goat herders that most other nations in the middle East have used as slaves at one period or another
 
Upvote 0