Gay marriage. Are you for or against it?

prayerbone

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And can you give any support for these claims that you're making like I asked before? You say that the GLBT community is trying to do something yet I have seen nothing supporting this so far.


Of course my experience within the glbt would not be evidence?

The non Christian gay community are not trying to force anything upon the church..As you rightly argue they want a state marriage,which ive repeatedly said i didn't have a issue with..

But the Christian gay community is,the Anglican church in USA/UK is evidence of that..The C of E is moving to a major split, is of course more evidence..aj
 
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sparklecat

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Im sorry i'm not sure what u mean here..Im sure its entirely my fault ;)

If a government official responsible for registering civil partnerships and marriages had a personal problem with same-sex partnerships, they could choose to not register a civil partnership, if asked.
 
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YamiB

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Considering that you are posting on a Christian forum and I am replying to your objections, I suppose the irony of even asking this is lost.

Just because this particular forum is Christian does not effect the rules that apply in the realm of the actual world. I feel that our argument is going in circles so I'm going to try taking a different route.

-Do you think that due to your religious rules same-sex marriage should be banned?
-Do you think that everyone should have to abide by your religious rules?
 
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prayerbone

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If a government official responsible for registering civil partnerships and marriages had a personal problem with same-sex partnerships, they could choose to not register a civil partnership, if asked.


ok thks..yeah ur right..i dont have any problems with civil partnership..
 
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YamiB

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Of course my experience within the glbt would not be evidence?

The non Christian gay community are not trying to force anything upon the church..As you rightly argue they want a state marriage,which ive repeatedly said i didn't have a issue with..

But the Christian gay community is,the Anglican church in USA/UK is evidence of that..The C of E is moving to a major split, is of course more evidence..aj

If there is a split coming I think that is more due to people not being able to come to a consenues on the issue. I don't think that homosexuals should be expected either to interpret their own religion to be against them. But as I've said before they should not be able to force religious leaders who disagree with them to preform marriage. I have always heard of same-sex couples who wanted to get married simply searching out a leader who agrees with them. It seems much simpler that way.
 
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prayerbone

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yami i will answer too if thats ok


Do you think that due to your religious rules same-sex marriage should be banned? not civil marriages no

Do you think that everyone should have to abide by your religious rules? no,unless they join the church family and wish to follow Christ.
 
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prayerbone

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If there is a split coming I think that is more due to people not being able to come to a consenues on the issue. I don't think that homosexuals should be expected either to interpret their own religion to be against them. But as I've said before they should not be able to force religious leaders who disagree with them to preform marriage. I have always heard of same-sex couples who wanted to get married simply searching out a leader who agrees with them. It seems much simpler that way.


ok maybe i was pushing it with the be forced to marry them..
 
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centurion said:
Perhaps some are or do, but that would be irrelevant in a society that doesn't require religious identification in order to grant representation.
There is no prohibition against the citizen's Constitutional freedom of religion and speech or a removal of those civil Rights.
It is irrelevant to the law yes of course and people are free to elect those they think will amend things toward their belief. Agreed.
There remains however, no reason why a same sex couple cannot fulfill the obligations of a marriage contract nor any way in which the legal definition of marriage affects the religious concept therefore no good reason for people to deny these couples the right.
 
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Tigg

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A question to any that feels like answering. Where is the line drawn? If marriage is extended to same sex, then does the slippery slope apply and slide us all down the poligamy (sp?) right? Or what about NAMBLA I think it is. The man-boy org. that see's nothing wrong with exactly that? Does then marriage become OK to anyone or thing one wants? These few I mention can use the same argument that one does for gay marriage, I believe. Is there a line or not? And if so, what should it be if not what is already in place? TYIA.

-Peace-
 
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YamiB

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A question to any that feels like answering. Where is the line drawn? If marriage is extended to same sex, then does the slippery slope apply and slide us all down the poligamy (sp?) right? Or what about NAMBLA I think it is. The man-boy org. that see's nothing wrong with exactly that? Does then marriage become OK to anyone or thing one wants? These few I mention can use the same argument that one does for gay marriage, I believe. Is there a line or not? And if so, what should it be if not what is already in place? TYIA.

-Peace-

The idea that because other things may come up as issues later that we should not allow this does not make sense. Each issue sould be evaluated on its own merit.

Personally I do not see a problem with polygamy. As for adult-child relationships the child can not consent and therefore it is wrong. The same thing applies for human-animal relationships.
 
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ChristianCenturion

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Just because this particular forum is Christian does not effect the rules that apply in the realm of the actual world. I feel that our argument is going in circles so I'm going to try taking a different route.

-Do you think that due to your religious rules same-sex marriage should be banned?
-Do you think that everyone should have to abide by your religious rules?

Given that I have spent a good deal in trying to spell out a reasoning and you're continuing on false premises followed by Begging the Question with loaded questions, I'll either have to let someone else attempt to lay out what was posted or I'll have to come back to this if I have a lot of free time.

But just to address your two questions:

1) In the religious context - it is banned, but then there is typically always some that are not obedient to God.

In the society sense - my state's constitution doesn't say anything about banning. It doesn't even mention same-gender couples. It states a man and a woman. Your objection that this doesn't meet your standards of inclusion for same-gender, polygamy and any other model not matching is simply dissent for having a definition of marriage.

2) I think people should, but there is nothing supporting your inserted premise of "should have to".

In the religious - it was a loaded question begged that was supposed to imply support for your position. However, it is irrelevant in that it doesn't address facts.

For example: Show me presently where in the U.S. Christians incarcerate two same-gender people gathering friends together to have a ceremony and exchange vows and may you will have something.

In the social - there have been states with Christian citizens that have same-gender civil unions or marriage (misnomer).
 
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YamiB

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Given that I have spent a good deal in trying to spell out a reasoning and you're continuing on false premises followed by Begging the Question with loaded questions, I'll either have to let someone else attempt to lay out what was posted or I'll have to come back to this if I have a lot of free time.

But just to address your two questions:

1) In the religious context - it is banned, but then there is typically always some that are not obedient to God.

In the society sense - my state's constitution doesn't say anything about banning. It doesn't even mention same-gender couples. It states a man and a woman. Your objection that this doesn't meet your standards of inclusion for same-gender, polygamy and any other model not matching is simply dissent for having a definition of marriage.
Current definitions are not a reason to exclude homosexuals from marriage. Definitions change and in the US the definition of marriage has changed as recently as the 1960s. Can you give any reason why the defintion should not be changed to include homosexuals in the government?
 
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crazyfingers

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I said a time is coming,not that its here..true not many people would want to be married by someone who doesn't agree with them lol..i can see a time when it will be illegal to say no,a minister was jailed in Sweden recently for preaching homosexuality is sinful, its not a massive jump from there..thats not to say i agree with the minster singly out a particular sin

I think that you are making a massive jump.

If you think that clerics will be required to marry gays then you think that the Catholic Church will be required to marry people who it regards as non-catholics, or have been divorced, etc...

It all falls under one umbrella.
Clerics refuse to marry people for lots of reasons having to so with religion. Being gay is one of many reasons that a cleric would have.
 
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crazyfingers

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But the Christian gay community is,the Anglican church in USA/UK is evidence of that..The C of E is moving to a major split, is of course more evidence..aj

How is that any different than the thousands of others issues upon which different people, denominations and religions disagree.
 
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Tigg

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The idea that because other things may come up as issues later that we should not allow this does not make sense. Each issue sould be evaluated on its own merit.

Personally I do not see a problem with polygamy. As for adult-child relationships the child can not consent and therefore it is wrong. The same thing applies for human-animal relationships.
What you say makes sense. One issue at a time. I can see if/when same sex marriage is resolved and if granted, the other issues I have read/heard about will sure as rain appear. Seems as if nothing is simple anymore in our society. <Grin> TY for your reply.

-Peace-
 
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Skaloop

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If a government official responsible for registering civil partnerships and marriages had a personal problem with same-sex partnerships, they could choose to not register a civil partnership, if asked.

Really? Here in Canada, Justices of the Peace cannot refuse to perform a civil marriage for a same-sex couple. As they are government agents, they are not allowed to discriminate in that manner. When SSM was made legal not too long ago, several JPs who objected to it were forced to resign their positions (or at least stop performing marriages).

Churches, priests, anyone else performing a religious marriage; they are still free to refuse to perform a marriage for whatever reason they see fit based upon their beliefs.
 
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ChristianCenturion

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It is irrelevant to the law yes of course and people are free to elect those they think will amend things toward their belief. Agreed.
There remains however, no reason why a same sex couple cannot fulfill the obligations of a marriage contract nor any way in which the legal definition of marriage affects the religious concept therefore no good reason for people to deny these couples the right.

Perhaps in a Dictatorship government, a society where the majority WANTS to support that model or other social models where the citizens have no representation. Again, your premise is attempting to prop up a strawman of legal contract and recognition dependent on religion and I've pointed out where that premise is flawed on several levels.
 
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