Forcing Cesar to live as a Christian

Nathan Poe

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In Saudi Arabia and Iran, everybody is required to live as a Muslim. I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same thing in America, which is a Christian nation established by Christians, for Christians. As a Christian nation, we can (and should) require everybody to live as a Christian -- or at least offer a higher class of citizenship to Christians. People who do not want to abide by established Christian beliefs and norms are free to live elsewhere.

What a decidedly Muslim attitude. Will there be public stonings for non-Christians who refuse to leave?
 
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Blackguard_

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Lioninoil,

Seperation of Church and State is a very Christian principle.

...

This power is exercised only by teaching or preaching the Gospel and administering the Sacraments, according to their calling either to many or to individuals. For thereby are granted, not bodily, but eternal things, as eternal righteousness, the Holy Ghost, eternal life. These things cannot come but by the ministry of the Word and the Sacraments, as Paul says, Rom. 1, 16: The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth. Therefore, since the power of the Church grants eternal things, and is exercised only by the ministry of the Word, it does not interfere with civil government; no more than the art of singing interferes with civil government. For civil government deals with other things than does the Gospel. The civil rulers defend not minds, but bodies and bodily things against manifest injuries, and restrain men with the sword and bodily punishments in order to preserve civil justice and peace.

Therefore the power of the Church and the civil power must not be confounded. The power of the Church has its own commission to teach the Gospel and to administer the Sacraments. Let it not break into the office of another; Let it not transfer the kingdoms of this world; let it not abrogate the laws of civil rulers; let it not abolish lawful obedience; let it not interfere with judgments concerning civil ordinances or contracts; let it not prescribe laws to civil rulers concerning the form of the Commonwealth. As Christ says, John 18, 33: My kingdom is not of this world; also Luke 12, 14: Who made Me a judge or a divider over you? Paul also says, Phil. 3, 20: Our citizenship is in heaven; 2 Cor. 10, 4: The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the casting down of imaginations.

...
 
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Stinker

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If true Christians had the power in the U.S. there would be so fewer secular laws.

Since they are not, we have so many laws for so many things that shouldn't have to be, that it is almost insane!

Non-Christians can never understand the Lord's teaching of true freedom through obedience to His New Testament commandments. Non-Christians see obedience to His teaching as kind of miserable slavery. They do not see the true slavery of endless secular laws from the result of a society in rebellion against the Lord.
 
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Biologist

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There's nothing wrong with forcing non-Christians to live like Christians. We Christians are the ones who have something to offer non-Christians -- not the other way around.
Yeah, your higher divorce rate, higher crime rate, hate crimes, abortion clinic bombings are really something you should be proud of. If anything Christians could take some advice from non-Christians.

In Saudi Arabia and Iran, everybody is required to live as a Muslim. I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same thing in America, which is a Christian nation established by Christians, for Christians. As a Christian nation, we can (and should) require everybody to live as a Christian -- or at least offer a higher class of citizenship to Christians. People who do not want to abide by established Christian beliefs and norms are free to live elsewhere.
Have you ever heard of the treaty of tripoli?

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

The Atheist founding fathers were great, weren't they?
 
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Mling

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Here are a few quotes from the "good Christian founders" who founded a "Christian nation" by, and for, Christians:

John Adams:
"Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"
Thomas Jefferson:
The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."
James Madison:
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
Benjamin Franklin:
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble."
As was quoted above, but bears reitteration:
The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."
Not a quote by George Washington, but about him:
the first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion. When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment. On his deathbed, Washinton uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance.
All quotes come from here. They cite their own sources as well.
 
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CriticalMassKitten

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In Saudi Arabia and Iran, everybody is required to live as a Muslim. I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same thing in America, which is a Christian nation established by Christians, for Christians. As a Christian nation, we can (and should) require everybody to live as a Christian -- or at least offer a higher class of citizenship to Christians. People who do not want to abide by established Christian beliefs and norms are free to live elsewhere.
Actually, no. Christians DID come to America, but didn't establish America for Christians, but any religion. They came and started this country on the idea of freedom of religion. Not "Follow what religion you want but we're better." No. Learn your history and stop preaching things you can't prove or back up.
 
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cobaltburrito

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I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same thing in America, which is a Christian nation established by Christians, for Christians.
May I direct you to the Treaty of Tripoli(1796)?
Treaty of Tripoli said:
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
 
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flicka

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If true Christians had the power in the U.S. there would be so fewer secular laws.

TrueChristians...you have to explain who exactly that would be.

Since they are not, we have so many laws for so many things that shouldn't have to be, that it is almost insane!

Like?

Non-Christians can never understand the Lord's teaching of true freedom through obedience to His New Testament commandments. Non-Christians see obedience to His teaching as kind of miserable slavery. They do not see the true slavery of endless secular laws from the result of a society in rebellion against the Lord.

Can you give some examples of secular laws that TrueChristians wouldn't need? And how we are currently slaves to those laws?




PS: I REMOVED MY PREVIOUS POST SINCE IT WAS INSULTING TO INTELLIGENT TEENAGERS EVERYWHERE. MY APOLOGIES.
 
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Can you give some examples of secular laws that TrueChristians wouldn't need? And how we are currently slaves to those laws?
Technically perfect true Christians (eg Jesus) shouldn't need any laws because by following God they wouldn't do anything wrong.

PS: I REMOVED MY PREVIOUS POST SINCE IT WAS INSULTING TO INTELLIGENT TEENAGERS EVERYWHERE. MY APOLOGIES.
PS: My post which was in reply has been edited in response to the changes in your post. :)
 
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kiwimac

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In Saudi Arabia and Iran, everybody is required to live as a Muslim. I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same thing in America, which is a Christian nation established by Christians, for Christians. As a Christian nation, we can (and should) require everybody to live as a Christian -- or at least offer a higher class of citizenship to Christians. People who do not want to abide by established Christian beliefs and norms are free to live elsewhere.



It should be self-evident to any Christian what a Christian is supposed to believe and how a Christian is supposed to live. As an atheist, you would not know this -- but it still does not relieve you of the responsibility of living like a Christian if you are going to CHOOSE to live in a Christian society.

America is a secular nation, founded for the most part by Deists and children of the Enlightenment.
 
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flicka

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Technically perfect true Christians (eg Jesus) shouldn't need any laws because by following God they wouldn't do anything wrong.

Thats an interesting idea. Was Jesus a Christain? Or just Perfect? We can't be perfect according to doctrine, so it's an impossible standard. But your right, if we were all Jesus we probably wouldn't need laws. But God didn't design it to work that way.
 
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chalice_thunder

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Sounds to me like "Caesar" is trying to force Christians to live like Caesar, e.g. to live like non-Christians and endorse sinful lifestyles.

There's nothing wrong with forcing non-Christians to live like Christians. We Christians are the ones who have something to offer non-Christians -- not the other way around.
Your post is arrogant beyond belief.
Jesus did not force anyone to live like him.

And therefore I think the pastor in appalachia is very well founded in the way he leads his congregation.
I hope more ministers go and do likewise.
 
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chalice_thunder

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In Saudi Arabia and Iran, everybody is required to live as a Muslim. I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same thing in America, which is a Christian nation established by Christians, for Christians. As a Christian nation, we can (and should) require everybody to live as a Christian -- or at least offer a higher class of citizenship to Christians. People who do not want to abide by established Christian beliefs and norms are free to live elsewhere.



It should be self-evident to any Christian what a Christian is supposed to believe and how a Christian is supposed to live. As an atheist, you would not know this -- but it still does not relieve you of the responsibility of living like a Christian if you are going to CHOOSE to live in a Christian society.
Those who would be first must be servant of all.
 
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chalice_thunder

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Your ignorance of our history and or the principles of our Constitution is obvious. The very First Amendment was designed to stop people exactly like you, people this nation was founded to get away from.

The Second Amendment gives us the means to stop people like you.



This isn't a Christian society, it's a free society. You're views are as anti-American, and anti-freedom as any Muslim terrorist we kill in the Mid East.

It's you that need to leave and find a Christian country where they don't mind forcing Christianity upon others.

I hear Fiji is a good place for freedom hating theocrats, they still have sodomy laws there.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Cerberus~ again.
 
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FadingWhispers3

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He believes to oppose these things is to try to force "cesar" i.e. non-christians to live as Christians.

Well, duh. Jesus is King, but of which world? Why did Jesus come first to serve rather than rule? "I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?" Galatians 3:2

The christians of the world have a lot to learn from your friend. 'Christian' laws do not make a country Christlike.
 
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elsbeth

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There's nothing wrong with forcing non-Christians to live like Christians.

Yikes! That's not the way God chooses to do it. If He wanted to force all of us to live the way He wants, He certainly could do it. Since He doesn't then why should we?
You just can't legislate morality. It doesn't work very well, people rebel. Then the laws have to get harsher and harsher to control the behavior.
 
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Yusuf Evans

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There's nothing wrong with forcing non-Christians to live like Christians. We Christians are the ones who have something to offer non-Christians -- not the other way around.



I think everyone has picked on you enough concerning this, but I will point you to scripture which may help you understand what is wrong with this sentiment:

1 Cor 5:9-13.
 
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