http://www.christianforums.com A new open forum for general politics discussion. en Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:44:02 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.christianforums.com/style/misc/rss.jpg http://www.christianforums.com http://www.christianforums.com/t7419046/ Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:29:24 GMT People that are opposed to gay marriage clearly seem to hate something
the constantly claim "they don't hate gay people" so I don't know what is going on in their minds, Perhaps they hate the "sin" and not the "sinner" ]]> General Political Discussion perplexed http://www.christianforums.com/t7419046/ http://www.christianforums.com/t7418803/ Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:39:00 GMT Learning From Islam I believe Christians can learn a lot from Islam, because I believe Islam is a window to the Old Testament and understanding God. Some would say understanding the Old Testament is unimportant, but God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and the same so that I believe it is... Learning From Islam

I believe Christians can learn a lot from Islam, because I believe Islam is a window to the Old Testament and understanding God. Some would say understanding the Old Testament is unimportant, but God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and the same so that I believe it is important to understand both the Old Testament and the New Testament. I do not believe it is possible for Jesus in the New Testament to teach something different from what God teaches.

The concept of the infidel is very strong in the Old Testament. Some would like to thing of the infidel as an unbeliever, but another way of thinking of the infidel is as the enemy. If you think of the infidel as an unbeliever, they represent no threat, but are just waiting to hear the good news. If you think of the infidel as the enemy, then there is concern and action is required.

Some would say the Ten Commandments of the Old Testament was nothing more than proving to man that man has a sin nature and needs a Savior, but I believe the Ten Commandments identifying the infidel within a society and requiring that the infidel be removed from society in order that society survives. That is the concept of removing the rotten apple before it ruins the whole barrel.

The question is how to remove the rotten apple.

In Islam, it is automatically assumed the infidel is the enemy and is to be killed as soon as an opportunity is available. The adulterer is to buried in sand. The hand of the theft is be cut off.

In Judaism, the people were instructed by God to stone to death those that violated the Ten Commandments.

In Christianity, each Christian is told to examine themselves, but to eradicate that which is offending. Matthew 6:29 states, And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

But Christianity exists in a world of infidels/evil so how does Christianity deal with those that are evil. This is the importance of Civil Law. I believe Civil Law was intended to do that which Christians were told not to do, and that was to not kill as individuals (taking the law into your own hands). Through Civil Law and a jury trial the evil person can be eliminated from society as an execution, which is very similar to the concept of stoning by the congregation as instructed by God.

Civil Law does not have to be the Ten Commandments as it is in Islamic Law or Mosaic Law, but Civil Law should never violate God's Law. It would be unrealistic to execute a person for not loving God with all their heart and soul, but it is perfectly reasonable and required to execute people for murder, rape, stealing, etc. in order to keep the rotten apple from ruining the whole barrel.

I do not accept the way Islam deals with evil, but I respect Islam for recognizing there is evil.

I believe the Bible teaches all things should be dealt with by the following three levels of action;
1) If it is good - accept it and nourish it.
2) If it is evil - rebuke it but tolerate it.
3) If it threatens your existence - destroy it before it destroys you. This is self defense, which both the individual and society have a right and responsibility to do.

The first two are from the New Testament of the Bible and represent the Law of Love. The third is from the Old Testament of the Bible and represents the Law of Purity/Self Defense. The New Testament deals more with personal responsibility and the Old Testament deals more with the preservation of society. The Old Testament and the New Testament together present God's Law, a means of survival for a person, a nation and a world.

There is great danger when evil people get in control of government/Civil Law because they will not execute evil people, but they will legalize things that violate God's Law such as pornography, abortion and homosexuality. I do not believe God will tolerate evil to be legalized.

Who controls the government/Civil Law is politics.

I believe in Separation of Church and State as the Church has no right to execute, but has a responsibility to define morals, and the State has no right to define morals, but has a responsibility to execute.

If America were a total Christian Nation, then Civil Law could be God's Law, but since America is a mixed nation of Christians and Atheists, I believe it is best to use a double standard. If the Bible defines something as evil, that should be a red flag, then if physical reality showed that it leads to disease, death, destruction and poverty, then it is evil and Civil Law should protect society from the evil.

Pornography, abortion and homosexuality are condemned in the Bible and physical reality show they lead to disease, death, destruction and poverty.

The Church and State fighting each other is a lose lose situation, but to the Atheist, Christians are the non believers.

Some would say I am taking away from Jesus, but I believe Jesus and the New Testament are how Christian should live, and the combination of the Old Testament and New Testament is how Christians should govern. ]]> General Political Discussion clirus http://www.christianforums.com/t7418803/ http://www.christianforums.com/t7417851/ Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:06:41 GMT And the great dragon was thrown out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, *who leads all the world astray*. He was thrown to the earth, and his messengers were thrown out with him. (Rev 12:9 The Scriptures 1998+) You and I have only lived a short time on this planet even if one has... And the great dragon was thrown out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who leads all the world astray. He was thrown to the earth, and his messengers were thrown out with him.
(Rev 12:9 The Scriptures 1998+)

You and I have only lived a short time on this planet even if one has lived 100 years they are like a speck of time compared to those beings who have been around since the beginning of the creation of Man.
So don't you think the above, Satan has been planning destruction of this planet and proding those who are in his control since those who aren't filled with the Holy Spirit are the majority controlling the governments of this world that want total control? I am not just talking of local governments here. See Satan has been confusing the world and most of the world of believers as well and leading them astray by adding or subtracting from what The Father, Our Creator, has brought into this world via His words through those who were chosen to write down what he instructed.

Command and teach these matters. Let no one look down on your youth, but be an example to the believers in word, in behaviour, in love, in spirit, in belief, in cleanliness. Until I come, give attention to reading of Scripture, to encouragement, to teaching. Do not neglect the gift that is in you, which was given to you by prophecy with the laying on of the hands of the elderhood. Practise these matters, be in them, so that your progress might be plain to all. Pay attention to yourself and to the teaching. Continue in them, for in doing this you shall save both yourself and those who hear you. (1Ti 4:11-16 The Scriptures 1998+)

To be a true witness does not mainly mean telling someone of your belief in what you think is truth, but to be someone who practises those things written in the Bible so that it is Evident and plain in front of all people which includes non-followers of The Creator and His Son.
Why are there so many divisions of belief? Because of additions and subtractions to Our Father's WORD which are in fact lies because they are additions and subtractions which are really Man's Traditions which makes The WORD OF GOD a LIE to those who don't believe and many who did believe don't any more because of these lies.

But in a large house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some unto value and some unto no value. If, then, anyone cleanses himself from these matters, he shall be a vessel unto value, having been set apart, of good use to the Master, having been prepared for every good work. And flee from the lusts of youth, but pursue righteousness, belief, love, peace with those calling on the Master out of a clean heart. But refuse foolish and stupid questions, knowing that they breed quarrels. And a servant of the Master should not quarrel but be gentle towards all, able to teach, patient when wronged, in meekness instructing those who are in opposition, lest somehow Elohim gives them repentance unto a thorough knowledge of the truth, and they come to their senses, out of the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his desire.
(2Ti 2:20-26 The Scriptures 1998+)

"Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Set-apart Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the assembly of Elohim which He has purchased with His own blood. "For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves1 shall come in among you, not sparing the flock. Footnote: 1 See Mt. 7:15-23, Mt. 10:16, Lk. 10:3, John 10:12. "Also from among yourselves men shall arise, speaking distorted teachings, to draw away the taught ones after themselves. "Therefore watch, remembering that for three years, night and day, I did not cease to warn each one with tears.
(Act 20:28-31 The Scriptures 1998+)

Paul said that he warned them for three years. Don't you think that has been going on from then till now? How many lies has Satan brought into Christianity and other belief systems since then? How many additions and subtractions did he put in so the masses don't know the truth but mainly know Men's Traditions(that are really traditions setup by satan through men) and therefore are really wandering in the wilderness of belief as Israel did for 40 years in the wilderness. And also afterwards how many times did Israel fall away from the Truth and get scattered to the wind? Of course being split up beforehand into the Norther Kingdom and Southern Kingdom. Then the Southern Kingdom of Judah did even worse then the Northern Kingdom but was spared for The Father's own sake. If you don't know what I am talking about read the bible and pray for understanding.

"And I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Yisra’ĕl had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Yehuḏah did not fear, but went and committed whoring too. "And it came to be, through her frivolous whoring, that she defiled the land and committed adultery with stones and wood. "And yet for all this her treacherous sister Yehuḏah has not turned to Me with all her heart, but falsely," declares יהוה. And יהוה said to me, "Backsliding Yisra’ĕl has shown herself more righteous than treacherous Yehuḏah. (Jer 3:8-11 The Scriptures 1998+)

When Yeshua was on earth he told the deciples to go to the lost tribes of Israel didn't he? And later through Paul brought in the gentiles who only knew gentile ways of belief as the whole of Israel did when they came out of Egypt. See in my thinking those who come to believe in The Most High are then part of Israel, grafted in. A writing I remember talks of those who are grafted in are not to boast over the Jews becasue they can be cut off as those Jews were and they also can be Grafted back in. And to top it off, The Father has Blinded them for the sake of you gentiles to be grafted in and also that His Son can pay the price of all sins.

So we come to these days with all these divisions of belief. Divide and conquer is a mode that satan uses. Additions and subtractions to Truth that are Men's traditions that cause all these divisions. Wide is the path to destruction and narrow is the path to life eternal. So what path are you on? Without going to your pastor or father or what ever you call them, are you following truth? Test the spirits, pray, seek and you will find and be truely set free.

So now on to the politics of this world. We in the U.S.A. have been blessed and therefore have blessed this world with many years of blessings to all other nations on this planet. But lately this country has been falling apart. Why? Because men come to us saying they believe but by their actions(fruits) they are liars. They(granted not all of them) come as angels of light but are actually controlled by the one belief system that has overcome the world and is poised to take over the world. And that belief system is ran by a few elite people of this world hidden until lately. That belief is control and power.
Back in 1870s the big companies got the same rights as an individual by having passed laws that gave them the rights we have. "We The People" is not to be included those corporations that can change their name and continue do harm. "We The People" are those who have the last word, but don't because laws being passed by those in power who are part of this elite people of the world.
Continued-------------------------




]]> General Political Discussion Shamash Of Yeshua http://www.christianforums.com/t7417851/ http://www.christianforums.com/t7416904/ Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:00:34 GMT "The battalion had come back from Blanc-Mont ridge. No, the battalion was still up there. But anyway, oh hell, let me get this straight. A hundred and thirty-four of us had come back from Blanc-Mont ridge. We had gone up a full-strength battalion, a thousand strong." Sgt. Elton E. Mackin, 1st Battalion, 5th Marines. The attack was Nov. 1, 1918 ]]> General Political Discussion lucaspa http://www.christianforums.com/t7416904/ http://www.christianforums.com/t7416545/ Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:11:18 GMT What Muslims Think of America It is good to know what another person thinks, but it is the actions that result from that thinking that really concern me. This is the difference between spiritual sin and physical sin. Hate is a spiritual sin that can become the physical sin of killing, for... What Muslims Think of America

It is good to know what another person thinks, but it is the actions that result from that thinking that really concern me. This is the difference between spiritual sin and physical sin. Hate is a spiritual sin that can become the physical sin of killing, for which society has a right and responsibility to execute (go to war with) the person that allowed the spiritual sin to become physical sin.

James 1:15 states. "Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

A lot of the differences between Muslims and America (Christians?) center around who owns Israel. There is no question in my mind that God chose the Jews through Isaac and rejected the Muslims through Ishmael.

Genesis 17:19 states, "And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, ans will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation."

The Muslims are wrong and America and Israel have a right and responsibility defend Israel. Israel has a right and responsibility to execute those that fire rockets into Israel and America has a right and responsibility to be at war with the Muslim people that allowed Muslim thinking to be an attack on America on 9/11.

I bet Muslims put a lot of money into the pockets of democrats so that the democrats can control America and say America is not a Christian Nation.

-----------------------------------

What Muslims Think of America

A Saudi-raised Pastor offers an insider's perspective

At 4.55 am, the minaret loudspeaker blared outside my window. I was in Damascus, visiting relatives, and hundreds of mosques all over the city were calling Muslims to the first of five daily prayers. Faithful Muslims weave these into their everyday lives. If they forget their duties in the midst of the details of life, muezzins from minarets throughout the Muslim world cry "Allahu akbar" ("God is great") at the appointed times to bring them back to this most basic of religious tasks.

Throughout the Middle East and in much of North Africa and lower Asia, Islam dominates the religious, cultural, and political landscape. While Islam is not monolithic, many in the Muslim world, particularly in the Mideast, see the U.S. as the stronghold of the "infidels," who refuse to bow to Allah (the God whom Muslims believe rules over all creation), and who therefore must be opposed or even destroyed.
Where does this intense antipathy come from? Radical Muslims in Lebanon, Gaza, Iraq, Iran, Indonesia, and elsewhere regularly chant, "Death to America! Death to the Great Satan!" Some of this is posturing for CNN, but the fact that such chanting can take place indicates the brewing of a storm for which America is the tallest lightning rod. Why?
1. First, devout Muslims see the US as exporting immorality. The international marketing of our movies and TV programs paints a lurid picture of American life for the Third World. Viewers get their ideas of American life from The Dukes of Hazzard, Dallas and Baywatch, so they assume that illicit sex, fast cars, guns, and intrigue are the norm here.
2. Second, Muslims see the United States' foreign policy as a political puppet of Israel and American Jews. They see in our government's positions over the past 50 years a blind support of a nation that most Muslims view as the cause of untold suffering among Arabs throughout the Middle East. A Syrian cousin of mine pointed to all the "Jewish-sounding" names in Cabinet-level and Congressional positions and declared, "The United States is in the pocket of the Jews"
3. Third, the American heart seems to Arabs to have an anti-Arab bias in both foreign policy and human rights issues. Muslims point to the cries of the Palestinians, not just over their displacement from their homeland, but over the ongoing oppression and violence they see them suffer under the rule of Israeli authorities. It is American planes, they say, that bomb their villages, and American helicopters that fire missiles into their apartment buildings, and American bulldozers that knock down their settlements, and American bullets that shatter their children's skulls. One of my Syrian cousins declared to me with undeniable passion, "If I could go to occupied Palestine [Israel] and fight against the oppressors and give my life to help liberate Palestine, I would count it a privilege. I would count it an honor!"
4. Fourth, Muslims (especially non-Western ones) view the USA as a Christian nation, and so a powerful rival to their faith; Though we know there is no such thing as a Christian nation since God has not called us to a kingdom of this world, the Muslim mind cannot conceive of religion apart from political realities. For Islam the kingdom of Allah must in the end become the unrivaled kingdom of this world.
In many quarters of the world, there is a sense of jealousy among Muslims as they look at the military strength of America across the globe, the standard of living and technological advantages of our society - the freedoms and pioneering spirit - that characterize our way of life. American influence in the world translates for some Muslims into Christian advances into Muslim territory, which cannot be tolerated. Even worse is American military presence in Saudi Arabia, the cradle of Islam and home of its holiest shrines.
5. Finally Islam is committed to the complete subjugation of the entire world to Allah. Though there is not consensus among Muslims concerning the use of force to advance Islam, there is unanimity concerning three fundamental principles: Islam is the one true religion, meant to be accepted universally; its ultimate goal is the establishment of a one-world theocracy where the laws of Islam (Sharia) become the laws of all societies; and all human beings will one day be either converted to Islam, subjugated under Muslim rule, or eliminated by the sword.
The term jihad, often translated "holy war" leads Americans to ask, "Is such violence sanctioned by Islam?" There is an intense debate in the Muslim world over how Islam's enemies are to be conquered. Moderates claim terrorism has no place in Islam and point to a verse in the Quran that says, "There is no compulsion in religion." But fundamentalists point to numerous texts in the Quran where Muhammad as Allah's spokesman commands his followers to fight and subdue all who resist Islam, if necessary by killing them.
What leads Muslim men to volunteer for death, even young men with all their lives before them? Islam offers no certain hope of heaven to any of its adherents, with one exception. Those who die while fighting in a jihad are promised immediate access to Paradise, the highest level of heaven with the greatest sensual delights imaginable.
For those trapped in a religious system where you can never be sure you have done enough good to please God eternally, and whose lives amid poverty, oppression, and despair do not guarantee much of an earthly future, the assurance of a reward of eternal hedonism is undeniably attractive. Add to this the high tribute in the minds of the faithful left behind and the thought of being an underdog who in the name of Allah does grave damage to the Great Satan, and you have a recipe for conflagration.
How should Christians respond? Confidence and Love are the first two words that come to mind. Paul reminds us in 2 Tim 1:7, "God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline." Jesus said that to live by the sword is to die by the sword. His followers are to love enemies and pray for those who engage in persecution.
Since our futures are secure in God's hand because of the finished work of Jesus Christ, we are not to fear those who threaten us, nor seek to destroy them. Rather, we are to approach them with the same love by which Jesus first approached and won us to Himself.
In the end, it is not a question of what Muslims think of America, or of Christians. It is much more a matter of what Christians think of Muslims. Will we extend them Christ's love, the only real hope for peace and transformation, or will we turn away in fear or anger? The future is not in the hands either of Muslim terrorists or of Muslim moderates. It is in the hands of Jesus Christ, and He still calls the church to meet the world with grace and love. The next months and years will show whether we are listening.
-- MATEEN A. ELASS ]]> General Political Discussion clirus http://www.christianforums.com/t7416545/ http://www.christianforums.com/t7413946/ Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:34:56 GMT *What is Democracy?* What is Democracy? ]]> General Political Discussion Ting-Tong, Chang http://www.christianforums.com/t7413946/ http://www.christianforums.com/t7413239/ Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:15:32 GMT A microstate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microstate) or ministate is a sovereign state having a very small population or very small land area, but usually both. Some examples include: Nauru, Singapore, Liechtenstein, Monaco, and Vatican City. The influence of microstates in the United Nations... A microstate or ministate is a sovereign state having a very small population or very small land area, but usually both. Some examples include: Nauru, Singapore, Liechtenstein, Monaco, and Vatican City. The influence of microstates in the United Nations General Assembly is disproportionately large due to the one state, one vote rule.

The smallest fully sovereign microstate is Vatican City, with 911 citizens as of July 2003 and an area of only 0.44 km². In Rome, Italy, the Sovereign Military Order of Malta (SMOM) (not to be confused with Malta, an island microstate in the Mediterranean) is an effectively non-territorial sovereign entity that might also be considered to be a microstate; its sovereignty is recognized by 105 states, 100 of which have entered into full diplomatic relations, but unlike the Vatican City state, it has no substantive territorial base (the SMOM's only property, its headquarters buildings, holds extraterritorial status, similar to an embassy building). Neither the Vatican nor SMOM are members of the United Nations, although both have permanent observer status at the UN: Vatican City is a "non-member state" under the name of the atypical international entity of the Holy See, SMOM is an "other entity".

Microstates should not be confused with micronations, which are not recognized as sovereign states. Special territories without full sovereignty, such as the Channel Islands, are not considered microstates either.


:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: ]]> General Political Discussion Sphinx777 http://www.christianforums.com/t7413239/ http://www.christianforums.com/t7413148/ Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:22:00 GMT NJ and VA Election 11/3 I pray everyone in New Jersey and Virginia is going to vote and to vote only for Republican candidates as a protest against the Obama Administration implementation of Atheism and Socialism in America. When compared to perfection, Republicans did not look good, but when... NJ and VA Election 11/3

I pray everyone in New Jersey and Virginia is going to vote and to vote only for Republican candidates as a protest against the Obama Administration implementation of Atheism and Socialism in America.

When compared to perfection, Republicans did not look good, but when compared to democrats, Republicans look brilliant. Without the propaganda support of the Atheistic Liberal News Media the democrats would look ridicules. ]]> General Political Discussion clirus http://www.christianforums.com/t7413148/ http://www.christianforums.com/t7413131/ Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:09:54 GMT The 2009 Legatum Prosperity Index (http://www.prosperity.com/rankings.aspx) And the index seems pretty seriously put together: Legatum Prosperity Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legatum_Prosperity_Index) The 2009 Legatum Prosperity Index

And the index seems pretty seriously put together: Legatum Prosperity Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ]]> General Political Discussion Received http://www.christianforums.com/t7413131/ http://www.christianforums.com/t7411578/ Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:21:37 GMT Morals and Economics

There is a lot more of a relation between Morals and Economics than a lot of people would like to admit. When the Economic Disaster of 2008 started the phrase "Moral Hazard" was used. Economic "Moral Hazard" is the concept that if you reward bad behavior, the bad behavior will be repeated and grow. Moral "Moral Hazard" is the failure to rebuke sin.

I once attended a management course for a week, then heard a sermon on Sunday. They both said the same thing. Christian Principles are good for an individual, a business and a nation.

The reason people do not like Christian Principles is because Christian Principles contain both what to do, but also what not to do. Atheists would rather have an economic disaster than to accept what the Bible says not to do. If America wants prosperity, then both the dos and the don'ts must be followed. It is not possible to legalized pornography, abortion and homosexuality then expect posterity. I do not believe God blesses an individual or a nation that violates Christian Principles. More of a possibility of destruction than blessing for the rejection of Christian Principles.

There are three parties that have created the moral and economic disaster in America: those that participate, those that advocate, and those that fail to rebuke.

It was immoral to accept the sub prime mortgages that were being offered when there was little or no possibility of paying the mortgages. Christian Principles would have provided reasons not to take on more debt than you can afford.

It was immoral to offer sub prime mortgages to people that had little or no possibility of paying the mortgages. The Community Reinvestment Act created during Democratic Administrations not only advocated sub prime mortgages, but forced banks to offer sub prime mortgages.

It was immoral for Christians not to rebuke the government for offering sub prime mortgages. Christians are failing at presenting both the dos and the don'ts of the Bible. Christians are afraid of being called judgmental. Christians take the "God is in Control" concept to an extreme that they accept anything that happens as God's Will, even if it is opposite to Christian Principles. Christians accept the Economic Disaster as God's chastisement, but forget that the immorality stated back in the Roosevelt administration with the introduction of Socialism into the government.

It is immoral for people to think that adultery and homosexuality are acceptable.

It is immoral for the Atheistic Liberal News and Entertainment Industry to advocate that adultery and homosexuality are acceptable.

It is immoral for Christians to fail to publically rebuke adultery and homosexuality, even though they will be called judgmental.

A good sermon for any preacher would be to stand in the pulpit with a newspaper in his left hand and a Bible in his right hand. He should shake the newspaper and state, "Here are the problems". He should then shake the Bible and state, "Here is the prevention, there is not cure. No amount of health care/welfare will cure the scars of sin, but God will forgive the sins and provide the Holy Spirit to guide your life to help prevent future problems, if you will accept Jesus Christ as Lord/Savior and commit to following the commandments/doctrines of the Bible". A few examples could be discussed to fill in the 20 or so minutes that is allotted to the preacher. ]]> General Political Discussion clirus http://www.christianforums.com/t7411578/