Christian Forums - Eschatology http://www.christianforums.com en Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:45:55 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.christianforums.com/style/misc/rss.jpg Christian Forums - Eschatology http://www.christianforums.com Israel http://www.christianforums.com/t7419105/ Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:12:02 GMT Contrary to many evangelicals, I don't think the modern, secular state of Israel has anything to do with the Israel in the bible which means I think many evangelicals need to rethink their eschatological views; mainly those that hold to some sort of dual covenant theology. I'm going to highlight a few of my reasons and can comment more if needed or if someone wants to see how I arrive at some of these.

1. The suffering servant of Isaiah 53 is to be identified as Israel
1.A. Jesus is identified as the suffering servant of Isaiah

2. The son of man in Daniel 7 is to be identified as Israel.
2.A. Jesus identifies Himself as son of man

3. The Messiah, the king of Israel, is to be representative of Israel.
3.A. Jesus identifies Himself as the messianic king.

4. The Messiah, the High Priest, is to be representative of Israel.
4.A. Jesus is identified as the messianic High Priest.

5. Jesus' call of 12 apostles is clearly a symbol for a restored Israel.


I have a few more reasons, especially since I think Paul develops and explains the above ideas plus a few more that I haven't listed yet, but those should suffice for now. One of the real scandalous things faced by the early church was how the Gentiles could be covenant members of God's people, Israel, and that God's covenant extended not just to Jews, but also to Gentiles as John would say, "for God so loved the world". But nevertheless, the New Testament and early Christians saw the true Israel of God as being those who were "in Jesus", who were marked primarily and most importantly by their loyalty to the messiah who was their representative. It could be summed up by saying that Jesus is Israel as He is Israel's representative messiah and all who are in Jesus are in Israel. To be identified with Jesus is to be identified with Israel.

I would disagree that the modern secular state of Israel has anything to do with biblical prophecy. 1948 and 1967 were no doubt significant dates for the modern state of Israel as much as 1776 is important for Americans, but in regards to biblical prophecy those dates are insignificant.

One thing I would expect is for someone to say that God's plan for the Jewish people isn't completed yet and/or that one day their would be some mass conversion of Jews to faith in Jesus as the messiah. I would simply point out that God's plan for the Jewish people reached it's greatest expression and it's fulfillment in Jesus so that, in Jesus, God has made good on His promises and plans to/for Abraham, Moses, and David. Even to say that there would be a mass conversion of ethnic Jews to faith in Jesus would be to admit that being in Jesus is being in Israel. A mass conversion of ethnic Jews may happen someday, but that only concedes that Jesus is the fulfillment of God's plan for Israel and the world. ]]> Eschatology Yekcidmij http://www.christianforums.com/t7419105/ The Sacrifice The Temple http://www.christianforums.com/t7418797/ Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:13:08 GMT HI In this NT era what is the acceptable sacrifice to God? In this NT era where is the temple of God? HI

In this NT era what is the acceptable sacrifice to God?

In this NT era where is the temple of God? ]]> Eschatology Just The Facts http://www.christianforums.com/t7418797/ “The Day of The Lord” AND “Thief in the night” http://www.christianforums.com/t7418579/ Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:29:53 GMT “The Day of The Lord” AND “Thief in the night”

“Day of the Lord”
The word “day” in Greek translation; yowm,yome; from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by an associated term), [often used adverbially] :- age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, × end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), × full, life, as (so) long as (...live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, × required, season, × since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), × whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.

Unlike the way that men think, God in heaven thinks in greater volumes…He is multidimensional.
So when we, as men, say “the day of the Lord…” most generally we will apply our finite understanding and say;” this means a literal from sunrise to sunset” day. A "man" day of 24 hours

I honestly believe that it is a figurative time or season. In that it means that “The day of the Lord” is a time span of greater time than just one sunrise to sunrise 24 hour, literal day.

Obadiah 1:15 (KJV)
For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

Zeph. 1:7 (KJV)
Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord God: for the day of the Lord is at hand: for the Lord hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.

Zeph. 1:14 (KJV)
The great day of the Lord is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the Lord: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.

Zech. 14:1 (KJV)
Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

1 Cor. 5:5 (KJV)
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

2 Cor. 1:14 (KJV)
As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Thes. 5:2 (KJV)
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

2 Peter 3:10 (KJV)
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Apostle Peter goes on to give us a better glimpse of the timetable between a man-day and a GOD day…
2 Peter 3:8 (KJV)
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

This would lead us to believe that the 1,000 years Millennial Sabbath is just that,
“The DAY of the Lord”

“The day of the Lord” is not a good thing for sinners and a very good thing for the saved…

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the cults and psuedo denominations, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
*****

Again, unlike the way that men think, God in heaven thinks in greater volumes…He is multidimensional…

“Thief in the night”

A lot of people look at this statement as one dimensional in meaning and although it does in fact mean to be caught off guard. I honestly believe that it has more meanings as well.

Apostle Paul and Apostle Peter use the term “thief in the night” when they are speaking about the return of Lord Jesus.
There are certain examples of Lord Jesus talking about His return where He uses the term “thief”.
BUT what is a “thief in the night” and is there more to it than just someone coming when we least expect?
You decide…

A good thief will always come when he is least expected.
A good thief will always get in and take whatever it is that he came for and leave without notice.
AND a very good thief will most always have a distraction taking place someplace other than where he is stealing from so that the theft will be unnoticed.

I believe that Lord Jesus is more than able to be a Master at anything that He does and that when He returns in the sky among the clouds, due to the sky falling, moon and sun loosing their brightness, earthquakes…the thing that He comes for, His “elect”, will be taken without notice.

YES, they will see Him!
WE WILL BE CUAGHT UP, But nothing says that they will SEE US being “caught up”.

The types of conditions in description to what is in fact happening when He returns in the sky is completely descriptive of some type of cataclysmic something taking place directly before He shows up. ICBM’s (“stars falling”) elements melting by intense heat (II Pet.3:12), the moon turning blood red and the sun becoming black as sackcloth hair, surface to ground missiles triggered earthquakes… there is going to be A LOT of destruction going on when He comes for His elect.
NO there is NO mention of missiles in the text, but the description is one of the type of destruction that takes place with such.. It could be the planets aligning...in 2012 (LOL)...or it could be the “sudden destruction” that must happen to them who are declaring “peace and safety”… does not matter, it will happen with cataclysmic consequences.

This would be known as the distraction-taking place. Thus placing the attention of those involved in protecting oneself from the things happening, IE: ducking under tables and doorways, hiding in a bomb shelter or basement…MANS disaster protocol.

Just a thought, not a doctrine.

Of course those who are in Christ will not be afraid of the elements melting, like Apostle Peter says.
We will be doing the Lord Jesus earthquake protocol…
Luke 21:25-28 (KJV)
And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; [26] Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. [27] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. [28] And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

NLT
25“And there will be strange events in the skies—signs in the sun, moon, and stars. And down here on earth the nations will be in turmoil, perplexed by the roaring seas and strange tides. 26The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, because the stability of the very heavens will be broken up. 27Then everyone will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds with power and great glory. 28So when all these things begin to happen, stand straight and look up, for your salvation is near!”


*Make special note*
Lord Jesus gave us a key to being able to withstand the natural “fear” that comes with being in a natural disaster,
He even gives us a warning 26The courage of many people will falter because of the fearful fate they see coming upon the earth, …in the His Word and in the gift, this servant did what Lord Jesus said to do when these things come to pass…”STAND straight up and lift your heads towards heaven”

Once you know that it is in fact the Lord returning, and you WILL know.
Actually I never gave it any real thought, each time that a earthquake has taken place I always believe that this is it. WOOOOOOOOOOO whoooooooo... YES Lord Jesus!!!
Rev. 22:20 (KJV)
He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Praise will just automatically start flowing out of you.
This praise will be in Sspirit and truth and the worship will cause you to completely not notice that your body is in danger of being crushed, liquefied, incinerated or whatever type of disaster that is coming upon you.

I know it is completely against all disaster protocols that we have been raised to do in case of a nuclear attack or an earthquake-taking place. But this will not be any ordinary disaster and running, hiding or ducking will not make any difference.
Remember, one cannot be practicing the disaster protocol of GOD from under a table…:thumbsup:

This servant has been in a few earthquakes since the gift was shown and it is has been awesome to practice standing up with my head looking towards heaven in full throttle praise and worship…
Believe me, you will feel the transformation but it will NOT hurt.

There is no sting to this.


The grave will have no victory.



ALL the glory is unto GOD in heaven!



Love,


Brother Jerry
]]> Eschatology B1inHim http://www.christianforums.com/t7418579/ why 70 years in jerimiah why 490 years in Daniel 9 http://www.christianforums.com/t7418315/ Tue, 17 Nov 2009 16:24:30 GMT Why is it 70 years pnishment in Jeremiah ............490 years or 70 weeks of seven in Daniel 9? Why this time frame why not some other time frame.......remember everything has a reason in Scripture. So lets look at the Covenant? what are the terms.........Well if they keep the covenant then... Why is it 70 years pnishment in Jeremiah ............490 years or 70 weeks of seven in Daniel 9?

Why this time frame why not some other time frame.......remember everything has a reason in Scripture.

So lets look at the Covenant? what are the terms.........Well if they keep the covenant then the promise will be fulfilled in their life times. So what if they break it?

Lev 26:14: But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;15: And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:16: I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.17: And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.

So if they break the Covenant they will be driven into captivity.

Why will they be driven into captivity what is the purpose of this??????????

43: The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes.

It is to give the land its rest................So was this part of the Covenant giving the land rest?

Lev:25:4: But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.

Yes every seven years was to be a Sabbath year for the land...............

By the time of jerimiah they had long forgotten this part of the covenant. In fact they had missed 70 Sabbath years .............this is why it is 70 years of Punishment in Jerimiah.

Ok so Now Daniel sees that the 70 years is almost over and so he wants to know when God will fulfill the covenant.

Dan 9:2: In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

So he makes his suplications

Dan 9:8: O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.9: To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;10: Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.11: Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

Daniel clearly understands that the 70 years is because of the curse of the covenant as laid out in leviticus 26:

So under the terms of the covenant what must they do when they are in captivity???????????

Lev 26:40: If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;41: And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:42: Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

Ok so they have to repent and keep the terms of the covenant.

What if they do not keep the terms while in Captivity??????????????

Lev 26:18: And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

Ok so if they do not harken even after be taken Captive God will punish them 7 times more BEFORE he will fufill the promise of the Covenant.

Now remember the Promise to the jews is that jesus will be born a Jew.

Do they keep the covenant in captivity..............Well no they do not all but a few bow to the golden statue of the King of babylon.

So Now Daniel asks the Question the 70 years is over when will God fulfill the covenant.

Here is the Answer

23: At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.24: Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

They are to be punished a further seven times for their failure to keep the terms while in Captivity............Ti finish the transgretion and make amends for their breaking of the covenant.

70 years of Punishment times 7 for failure to keep the terms in Captivity equals 490 years or 70 weeks of seven because a day for a year applies to punishment.

The most important thing to remember here is that the Covenant and the Promise of jesus being born a Jew cannot happen until the 490 years have been fulfilled..............So all 490 years had to be fulfilled BEFORE Jesus was born.

this is the Truth of Daniel 9: ]]> Eschatology Just The Facts http://www.christianforums.com/t7418315/ Daniel 9 and the 70 Weeks http://www.christianforums.com/t7418304/ Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:31:11 GMT This is a long one Bible2 but it is worth the read. The most important thing to understand in Daniel 9: is what Daniel is asking for clarification on. Daniel, like every other Jew of the time, wanted to know if God was still going to fulfill his promise to David, that Jesus would be born of the... This is a long one Bible2 but it is worth the read.

The most important thing to understand in Daniel 9: is what Daniel is asking for clarification on. Daniel, like every other Jew of the time, wanted to know if God was still going to fulfill his promise to David, that Jesus would be born of the Jews. This was the Jewish share of God's covenant with Abraham. Just as the northern Kingdom of Israel had a punishment time allotted, so here do the Jews, 490 yrs.

24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy One.

We are told that it will take 490 yrs. To finish the sin of the Jews "upon thy people" "to finish the transgression and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity". And to seal up and finish this prophecy. It looks like Jesus knew that people would try and stretch this prophecy to over 2500yrs. So he clearly states this prophecy ends in 490yrs.

We must remember he is writing in regards to Jeremiah's prophecy of seventy years, the chapter starts

2: In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolation of Jerusalem.

490 years to make an end of their sins to fulfill God's covenant with Abraham, and to reconcile them to God by Jesus "and to anoint the most Holy One.

"This prophecy clearly states that the 490 years is a further punishment period of the Jews. In this prophecy at the end of 490 years Jesus arrives and this part of the covenant with Abraham is fulfilled. This abomination in these verses can not be the abomination that Jesus speaks of happening in the end times because this abomination happens during the 490 years., before Jesus arrives. Jesus comes at the end of the 490 years.

Here is the verse from the King James.

25: Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26: And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27: And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Now the Revised Standard

25 Know therefore and understand: from the time that the word went out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the time of an anointed prince, there shall be seven weeks; and for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with streets and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 After the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. 27And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."

It is clear these two translations are very different. While the King James Version translated from the Vulgate clearly implies this prince is Jesus by putting the first seven weeks and 62 weeks together, the Revised says it is just a Anointed One and separates the first seven weeks and the 62 weeks. More over the Revised version says the anointed one will be cut off and have nothing, that is the Septuagint translation, the Hebrew texts translate, "cut off and have no one left". this certainly was not Jesus. So which translation is correct. As I said at the start we will use the Septuagint and Hebrew versions, as they predate the Catholics who changed many verses in the Vulgate as they have admitted, "to make their meaning clearer"

First we must look at a very large discrepancy in these dates. Jeremiah tells us the Jews would be held captive 70 years. Historians say Jerusalem fell first in 597BC then in 586 BC the Temple was destroyed. Well quick math will show you that 597 or 586 minus 70 years does not leave one at or 538 BC which is the historical date of Cyrus's edict to Rebuild Jerusalem.

In 608 BC Babylon invades Judea and extracts a tribute from Jerusalem. In the first three months of Jehoiachin reign in 598BC. he stops paying tribute to Babylon. This infuriates Nebuchadnezzars and he takes the Jehoiachin his Sons and all the Nobles of Judea. Captive to Babylon and carries off all the Treasures of the temple (2Kings24:10-15). 608 - 70 years captivity leaves us at 538BC. This would seem to agree with the Biblical account.

Early in Artaxerxes reign 7yr. 5th month Ezra arrives in Jerusalem sometime about 458BC not 398BC as Catholic history teaches

So first thing that is noticed is the 490 years. Is broken up into 49 years. 434 years. And 7 years. And that the end will result in Jesus' arrival and the destruction of Jerusalem. It also says that war will continue until the end of Jerusalem. It clearly says, that there will be more than one desolation of the Temple "Desolations are decreed"

It says an anointed one will come after 49 years. Who or what is an anointed one? All through Leviticus in at least six places by a quick count Priest are called anointed ones. In Kings, Saul is said to have been anointed by God, this is also true of other Kings including King Cyrus, Who Isaiah says is God's Anointed, and who Ezra clearly states fulfils Jeremiah's prophecy in the Bible. So it would appear that there are a few possible solutions it could be a Priest or a King or Cyrus.

It is important to understand that the rebuilt Judea had Priest Kings, not separate High Priest and Separate Kings as before the deportation. Either way this is clearly the coming of a ruler 49 years after the word goes forth to rebuild and restore Jerusalem 538BC that puts us at 489BC

Then for 434 years Jerusalem will be built but in a troubled time. After 434 years of rule, this ruling line, will be cut of and have nothing (no heir to the seat of authority). The total number of years since the order to rebuild is now 483 years. If you put Jesus as the Anointed One that is cut off then he was murdered 483 years after the order to rebuild Jerusalem which we know went out in around 538BC. Ezra clearly says it is Cyrus's edict that fulfils the words of Jeremiah. To say some other rulers like Artaxerxes I edict of 458BC is the start date is to call God and Ezra liars. 538BC - 483 yrs. puts us at about 55BC. How can this possibly be Jesus he wasn't even born yet. Further more Jesus was never cut off and had nothing.

It is also important to understand that the last week is to be added in to the 62 weeks. Unlike the first seven weeks, which are clearly defined, the last week is not defined. The whole prophecy ends at the end of verse 26. "and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed" He then goes back in History to explain the first of many desolations of the Temple that will occur.

27And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week; and for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator."

Consider the phrasing he clearly end his thought at verse 26 and then verse 27 he speaks of this Prince who starts the desolation, he then continues on to the exact same end as in verse 26 he assumes the reader has read chapter 11.

Now lets look at History and Scripture and see what we get. 49 years after the word 538BC would put us at about 489BC.

Most Historians can not agree on any of the dates involved. However scripture says this in Zechariah 6:

11: Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest; 12: And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: 13: Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.


Here Joshua is named Priest King by God. Most historians believe this took place about 516BC. I am left wondering if this date of 516BC is not off by 27 years. Scripture says Joshua is the Priest King it also says in Daniel that he comes after 49 yrs from the edict, he must have arrived in about 489BC not 516BC unless the date of Cyrus's edict is wrong. I choose to believe Scriptural account and believe God's word rather that the confused historical account of this period. 538 - 49 = 489 ; 489 - 434 = 55 BC - 7years final week = 47BC

Antipater an Arab of Jewish faith, the Father of Herod the Great, became Governor of the Judea in 55BC he was a Arab not a Jew. His son would soon be named King of the Jews by Rome. and his Ascension to the thrown was the beginning of the end to the Priest Kings of the Second Temple Era. In 47 BC the Roman entered the Temple murdered all the Priest including the High Priest and wrapped up the 490 years. No high priest from then on would dare to defy Rome.

In fact Rome installed all the High Priests from 63BC on to 70 AD when Titus destroyed the Temple.. In 67 BC Pompey sided with Hyrcanus II for High Priest against Antigonus. Antigonus revolted and deposed Hyrcanus II Pompey Attacked Jerusalem Killing all the Priests in the Temple and desecrating the Temple by and entering the Holy of Holies.

The final week, , is divided into two halves, which many Christian Churches say is Jesus' ministry on Earth and that Jesus is the Prince cut off in the middle of the week. He already was here and taught for three and a half years. So what this Prince changes identity and turns on the temple for the last 3.5 years. I guess he will also trample the saints for 3.5years.

Many other say it is the final week separated by thousands of years from the other weeks and this is the AC.

This is not Jesus or the AC, this is one of the Kings of the North of Daniel 11. This week is the seven-year Maccabean war from 167 to 160BC.

This was the start of War and Many Desolations of the Temple, which Daniel is told, will continue until the end of Jerusalem. Here are the dates of the desolation’s 167BC, 162 BC, 63BC, 47BC, 27BC down to 17 AD is the longest as pictures or plaques of Augustus where set up in every wall of the wing of the Temple and upon the wing of abominations. Tiberius pictures or busts replaced Augustus and were there when Jesus taught in the temple about 26AD.

Jerusalem's end coming with a Flood in Daniel 9:

26: And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined..

Which also matches with Jesus words in Rev 12:

15: And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

THIS IS THE TRUTH OF DANIEL 9:

If you combine the 62 weeks and the 7 weeks and say Jesus is the anointed on that is cut off you are saying that Jesus was cut off in 55BC which is 483 years after Cyrus's Decree. It makes no sense at all, no matter which translation you use.

While I admit it is tempting to move this last week to be the final week of tribulation, the prophecy, the question being asked, and its answer, make it clear that this is not the case. In fact the Great tribulation the time of Jacobs trouble only last for 1335 days not seven years. ]]> Eschatology Just The Facts http://www.christianforums.com/t7418304/ The number 666 revisited http://www.christianforums.com/t7418300/ Tue, 17 Nov 2009 15:24:21 GMT I've seen a lot of post, on this site and others, about the meaning of the mark of the beast and the understanding of who it is.

Revelation 13:8
Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

We must get all of our information from the Bible. This is so key to understanding God's Word; because it does not leave a sliver of our understanding to define God's symbolism, parables, riddles, or any meaning whatsoever. So in light of this, we cannot bring in current events to plug in special meaning. If we were to do this, we would be using our understanding. That's not how it is suppose to work.

Couple verses, from what I've been recently taught (not to boast from my wisdom, by any means), that might shed light on this popular verse:

1. Nebuchadnezzar Golden Image (An example of Satan's Kingdom)

Daniel 3:1
Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold, whose height was threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof six cubits: he set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon.

Daniel 3:5
That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:

a. Height: 60 cubits
b. Width: 6 cubits
c. Instruments: 6

Interesting as well is the parable we can understand from reading Daniel 3.

2. 666 breaks down to 37 x 6 x 3, all symbolic numbers
a. 37 = Not found often, but it seems to reference judgment
b. 6 = Work
c. 3 = God's Plan

Together: It is God's plan for those who work for salvation shall fall under judgment at the end of the world. Possibly, not entirely confirmed.

3. There's one more, 1/3 - 2/3 symbolism repeated in the Bible. I'm not at liberty to post this yet, since I havn't done my own study. Pretty much it goes like this: 1/3 = those who are saved, 1/3 = those who are not, 1/3 = those who are not saved; yet, found in the churches/nation of Israel

2/3 = .666

I'll post later on the 1/3-2/3, I just don't have the time to do it right now - ]]> Eschatology SpiritualIsraelite http://www.christianforums.com/t7418300/ The Last trumpet http://www.christianforums.com/t7417923/ Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:54:59 GMT Hi All 1Cor:15:51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52: In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. One of the reasons there are... Hi All


1Cor:15:51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52: In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

One of the reasons there are so many interpretations of the course of events is because of the nature of prophecy and its scattered placement in scripture.

We do have Jesus and he is given the scroll aand only he can break the seals and know the course of events................that is what revelation is it is a revealing of the future and the course and placement of prophetic events found elsewhere in scripture.

So lets look at this When are we told in revealtion the last trumpet blows......................

Rev 10:7: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

So here is the mystery spoken of by Paul placed by Jesus at the seventh and last trumpet. Just as Paul tells us at the last trumpet.

So lets look at other verses and have Jesus place them in there proper place for us.

Matt 24:40: Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.41: Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.42: Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.43: But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.44: Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

So here we see the thief in the night .............which is an analogy for Jesus return at a unknown time...........so we should watch and be ready.............So lets look to rev to have this prophecy put in its proper place

Rev 16:15: Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

So this event happen between the sixth and seventh bowl Which regardles of how you see the trumpets and bowls is at the last trumpet.

Once again we see Jesus place his return at the last trumpet.........Now both of these scriptures have been scripture used to support the "that is in the Air and jesus touches the ground later" crowd.

So lets look at some Jesus touches the ground Scripture and have Jesus place that prophecy in Revelation for us.

1: Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, ..................................3: Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle............................4: And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south........................11: And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

Ok so lets see We have Jesus returning he stands upon Mount Olives which splits and he fights the nations gathered and jerusalem is in Peace.

2: And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.3: And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.4: And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

There is Isaiah's prophecy of the same event. Weapons destroyed and peace brought to earth.

So Now Jesus places this in Revelation

Rev 19:11: And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.15: And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations:

Rev 20:4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

As we can see this also happens at the seventh trumpet at the beginning of the 1,000 years of peace. It contains jesus in the clouds and one earth....................jesus arrives in the Clouds we are caught up and then he stands on earth it is all the same event. ]]> Eschatology Just The Facts http://www.christianforums.com/t7417923/ <![CDATA["On judgment day many will tell Me,..." 1]]> http://www.christianforums.com/t7417902/ Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:59:29 GMT ‘Lord, Lord, we…” What is important about being “caught up”? Is knowing when it will happen, important?
‘Lord, Lord, we…”



What is important about being “caught up”?



Is knowing when it will happen, important?



Some would have us to believe that it is.


What did Lord Jesus say?
Matthew 24:4-51 (NLT)
“Don’t let anyone mislead you. 5For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah.’ They will lead many astray. 6And wars will break out near and far, but don’t panic. Yes, these things must come, but the end won’t follow immediately. 7The nations and kingdoms will proclaim war against each other, and there will be famines and earthquakes in many parts of the world. 8But all this will be only the beginning of the horrors to come.
9“Then you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because of your allegiance to me. 10And many will turn away from me and betray and hate each other. 11And many false prophets will appear and will lead many people astray. 12Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold. 13But those who endure to the end will be saved. 14And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then, finally, the end will come.
15“The time will come when you will see what Daniel the prophet spoke about: the sacrilegious object that causes desecration standing in the holy place”—reader, pay attention! 16“Then those in Judea must flee to the hills. 17A person outside the house must not go inside to pack. 18A person in the field must not return even to get a coat. 19How terrible it will be for pregnant women and for mothers nursing their babies in those days. 20And pray that your flight will not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21For that will be a time of greater horror than anything the world has ever seen or will ever see again. 22In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, the entire human race will be destroyed. But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones.
23“Then if anyone tells you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah,’ or ‘there he is,’ don’t pay any attention. 24For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great miraculous signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God’s chosen ones. 25See, I have warned you.
Jesus Tells about His Return (/Mark 13:24-31; Luke 21:25-33)
26“So if someone tells you, ‘Look, the Messiah is out in the desert,’ don’t bother to go and look. Or, ‘Look, he is hiding here,’ don’t believe it! 27For as the lightning lights up the entire sky, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. 28Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near.
29“Immediately after those horrible days end,
the sun will be darkened,
the moon will not give light,
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of heaven will be shaken.
30And then at last, the sign of the coming of the Son of Man will appear in the heavens, and there will be deep mourning among all the nations of the earth. And they will see the Son of Man arrive on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he will send forth his angels with the sound of a mighty trumpet blast, and they will gather together his chosen ones from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven.
32“Now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When its buds become tender and its leaves begin to sprout, you know without being told that summer is near. 33Just so, when you see the events I’ve described beginning to happen, you can know his return is very near, right at the door. 34I assure you, this generation will not pass from the scene before all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will remain forever.
Jesus Tells about Remaining Watchful (/Mark 13:32-37; Luke 21:34-38)
36“However, no one knows the day or the hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows.
37“When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. 38In those days before the Flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat. 39People didn’t realize what was going to happen until the Flood came and swept them all away. That is the way it will be when the Son of Man comes.
40“Two men will be working together in the field; one will be taken, the other left. 41Two women will be grinding flour at the mill; one will be taken, the other left. 42So be prepared, because you don’t know what day your Lord is coming.
43“Know this: A homeowner who knew exactly when a burglar was coming would stay alert and not permit the house to be broken into. 44You also must be ready all the time. For the Son of Man will come when least expected.
45“Who is a faithful, sensible servant, to whom the master can give the responsibility of managing his household and feeding his family? 46If the master returns and finds that the servant has done a good job, there will be a reward. 47I assure you, the master will put that servant in charge of all he owns. 48But if the servant is evil and thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ 49and begins oppressing the other servants, partying, and getting drunk—50well, the master will return unannounced and unexpected. 51He will tear the servant apart and banish him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Obviously when it comes to knowing when this will happen, the “rapture” was not important at all, according to Lord Jesus…“However, no one knows the day or the hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows.


What is important?


First, knowing that it will happen, it will in fact take place, period… Lord Jesus will come back for His elect.



Second, getting and remaining ready for when it does happen.

“You also must be ready all the time. For the Son of Man will come when least expected.”
We can clearly see that He has something in store for those who are here supposedly doing what He authorized them to do.
48But if the servant is evil and thinks, ‘My master won’t be back for a while,’ 49and begins oppressing the other servants…50well, the master will return unannounced and unexpected. 51He will tear the servant apart and banish him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
We can ALSO see that He has something in store for those who actually do what He told them to do while He is away.
“Who is a faithful, sensible servant, to whom the master can give the responsibility of managing his household and feeding his family? 46If the master returns and finds that the servant has done a good job, there will be a reward. 47I assure you, the master will put that servant in charge of all he owns.
Is it sensible to keep on teaching something that was not important to even Lord Jesus?

This servant does not believe so.


Knowing that it will happen is a comfort and a Truth that can be built on.

However, it is what you use to build on that Truth that will either make you strong or not.
21“Not all people who sound religious are really godly. They may refer to me as ‘Lord,’ but they still won’t enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The decisive issue is whether they obey my Father in heaven.22On judgment day many will tell me, ‘Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Go away; the things you did were unauthorized.’
24“Anyone who listens to my teaching and obeys me is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock. 25Though the rain comes in torrents and the floodwaters rise and the winds beat against that house, it won’t collapse, because it is built on rock. 26But anyone who hears my teaching and ignores it is foolish, like a person who builds a house on sand. 27When the rains and floods come and the winds beat against that house, it will fall with a mighty crash.”
According to Lord Jesus, keeping His sayings, heeding the warnings, keeping an eye out for the signs and remaining in Him are important…

1 of 2
 ]]> Eschatology B1inHim http://www.christianforums.com/t7417902/ The 666 calculator warning and advice page and mark of the beast http://www.christianforums.com/t7417801/ Sun, 15 Nov 2009 19:11:24 GMT Hello If you have seen the 666 calculator but have not seen the warnings and advice how to use the 666 calculator correctly then click the link below. http://timenearing.hostrator.com/warning.html The mark and number of the beast as well as the links to online 666 calculator and the free... Hello

If you have seen the 666 calculator but have not seen the warnings and advice how to use the 666 calculator correctly then click the link below.

http://timenearing.hostrator.com/warning.html

The mark and number of the beast as well as the links to online 666 calculator and the free uncover.exe 666 calculation software can also be found following this link. There is a you tube demonstration video for the 666 Uncover.exe also at this link. It will be the second video around the middle of the warning and advice page.

Praise Jesus Christ in the highest

The 666 calculator warning and advice page and mark of the beast ]]> Eschatology Jesusmyfriend http://www.christianforums.com/t7417801/ The Four Last Things! http://www.christianforums.com/t7417440/ Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:00:55 GMT OOOOO - the 4 last things! Death, judgement Heaven or Hell! Scarry stuff! Biblically speaking: Yes, the just man dead condemns the sinful who live, and youth swiftly completed condemns the many years of the wicked man grown old. From the Book of Wisdom, Chapter 4:16. So, is it smart to... OOOOO - the 4 last things! Death, judgement Heaven or Hell! Scarry stuff!

Biblically speaking: Yes, the just man dead condemns the sinful who live, and youth swiftly completed condemns the many years of the wicked man grown old. From the Book of Wisdom, Chapter 4:16.

So, is it smart to make up with those one has hurt during one's lifetime? Or should one just willy nilly waltz all over folks like their dirt and feel saved enough to do so? Oh my!

I was going to share a reflection on this verse in regards the problem of abortion, but that is such a hot political issue it is probably too hot for this area of these boards.

Peace and all good,

Gail ]]> Eschatology GailMc http://www.christianforums.com/t7417440/ Christians slaughtered http://www.christianforums.com/t7417432/ Fri, 13 Nov 2009 20:19:30 GMT You often hear pre tribs say that there is no mention of the church on earth after chapter 4 of revelations~actually there is. Revs:6:9-11 And when He had opened the 5th seal I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they... You often hear pre tribs say that there is no mention of the church on earth after chapter 4 of revelations~actually there is.
Revs:6:9-11
And when He had opened the 5th seal I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
And they cried out with a loud voice "how long O Lord holy and true dost Thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

And white robes were given unto every one of them and it was told unto them that they should rest yet for a little season until their fellowservants and brethren that should be killed as they were SHOULD BE FULFILLED.

Bros and sisses saints are not martyred in heaven~these were yet to be martyred on earth.

Look at ch:7 and verse nine onwards, you will see who these fellowservants are who should be killed as these others had been.
They are the crowd that suddenly appear in heaven which no man could number of all nations, tribe, kindreds, and tongues.
They had washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb and had come out of great tribulation.

The church is not going to be raptured out of the tribulation she is going to be martyred out of it. ]]> Eschatology TehMill http://www.christianforums.com/t7417432/ END times signs and warning http://www.christianforums.com/t7417395/ Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:14:03 GMT The signs and warnings

Lord Jesus gave us enough warnings about what is going to happen in the “last days” that a fool or the apathetic, one who is indifferent, has a lack of concern, would not be able to or willing to see them.
Then of course there are those who show their concern but have ulterior motives, like being able to deceive even the elect it were possible.

When a warning is given, it is clear that the outcome could result in the culmination or summit of that which is being warned about as actually taking place.

Lord Jesus begins with “Don’t let anyone mislead you.” or “Take heed that no man deceive you.”

We are living in the very last days prophesied by all the prophets, perilous days with seen and unseen hazards.
2For people will love only themselves and their money. They will be boastful and proud, scoffing at God, disobedient to their parents, and ungrateful. They will consider nothing sacred. 3They will be unloving and unforgiving; they will slander others and have no self-control; they will be cruel and have no interest in what is good. 4They will betray their friends, be reckless, be puffed up with pride, and love pleasure rather than God. 5They will act as if they are religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly.

These are more than just an idol, visible in appearance but without substance, warnings.

And these things that we are being warned about are taking place moment by moment among us.
One point that Lord Jesus spoke of is “Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold.”
Rampant: without or absent of restraint and widespread.
Rampant = abound; plethuno,play-thoo'-no; from another form of Greek 4128 (plethos); to increase (transitive or intransitive) :- abound, multiply.
plethos,play'-thos; from Greek 4130 (pletho); a fulness, i.e. a large number, throng, populace :- bundle, company, multitude.
pletho,play'-tho; a prolonged form of a primary pleo, pleh'-o (which appears only as an alternate in certain tenses and in the reduplication form pimplemi); to “fill” (literal or figurative [imbue, influence, supply]); specially to fulfil (time) :- accomplish, full (...come), furnish.

Sin is abounding, multiplying, furnishing influence and fully accomplished in this world on a master scale…

Those are just some of the problems and hurdles that are being made for us today.

AND here is an answer or solution to the problems…Lord Jesus and what He told us to do while we are still here waiting for His return.

Watch out; keep an eye open for people who are using non-salvational teachings to gain your confidence. NOT to say that there are those out there who are genuine teachers of the things of GOD. But there are those out there who seem religious, have a form of godliness. They know all the right words to say and they supposedly know it all when it comes to a subject. BUT when we examine what they are teaching and start defining even the smallest and subtleties of their teaching we find it to be incorrect. Watch out.
Lord Jesus put it this way;
“Not all people who sound religious are really godly. They may refer to Me as ‘Lord,’ but they still won’t enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The decisive issue is whether they obey My Father in heaven. 22On judgment day many will tell me, ‘Lord, Lord, we prophesied in Your name and cast out demons in Your name and performed many miracles in Your name.’ 23But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Go away; the things you did were unauthorized.’
24“Anyone who listens to My teaching and obeys Me is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock. 25Though the rain comes in torrents and the floodwaters rise and the winds beat against that house, it won’t collapse, because it is built on rock. 26But anyone who hears My teaching and ignores it is foolish, like a person who builds a house on sand. 27When the rains and floods come and the winds beat against that house, it will fall with a mighty crash.”
This not all of the answer, but it is very good start
25Those who love their life in this world will lose it. Those who despise their life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 26All those who want to be My disciples must come and follow Me, because My servants must be where I am. And if they follow Me, My Father will honor them. 2
Because of all the different denominations that are represented here it is hard to know who to listen to and who to NOT listen to. There are so many different models that are represented here that if it “sounds” good, many just take it and eat it.

We need to follow Jesus and what He said. If they are teaching what He said, we can be seeing it by the fruit that is being produced in our lives.
That means that we need to walk in the Sspirit and not in our flesh. By doing this we put to death the desires of this fleshly person and even our hearts are become free from the hazards of this life. Dismay, discouragement, contention, worry, discord become things that our “old nature” demands are become things of the past.

16So I advise you to live according to your new life in the Holy Spirit. Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves. 17The old sinful nature loves to do evil, which is just opposite from what the Holy Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are opposite from what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, and your choices are never free from this conflict. 18But when you are directed by the Holy Spirit, you are no longer subject to the law.
19When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, your lives will produce these evil results: sexual immorality, impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, 20idolatry, participation in demonic activities, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, divisions, the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group, 21envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other kinds of sin. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
22But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, and self-control. Here there is no conflict with the law.
24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there. 25If we are living now by the Holy Spirit, let us follow the Holy Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives. 26Let us not become conceited, or irritate one another, or are jealous of one another.
1So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. 2For the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you through Christ Jesus from the power of sin that leads to death. 3The law of Moses could not save us, because of our sinful nature. But God put into effect a different plan to save us. He sent his own Son in a human body like ours, except that ours are sinful. God destroyed sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. 4He did this so that the requirement of the law would be fully accomplished for us who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.
5Those who are dominated by the sinful nature think about sinful things, but those who are controlled by the Holy Spirit think about things that please the Spirit. 6If your sinful nature controls your mind, there is death. But if the Holy Spirit controls your mind, there is life and peace. 7For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will. 8That’s why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God.
9But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them are not Christians at all.)
In the last days there will be very difficult times. 2For people will love only themselves and their money. They will be boastful and proud, scoffing at God, disobedient to their parents, and ungrateful. They will consider nothing sacred. 3They will be unloving and unforgiving; they will slander others and have no self-control; they will be cruel and have no interest in what is good. 4They will betray their friends, be reckless, be puffed up with pride, and love pleasure rather than God. 5They will act as if they are religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. You must stay away from people like that.
Romans 8:2 (KJV)
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


2 Tim. 3:5 (KJV)
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Teaching about this subject, the “rapture” has helped this servant see what is important and what is not.
Being allowed to actually be, see and directly participate in it many years ago in a gift for all, this servant knows the importance of knowing what to expect… to expect that those who are teaching a different understanding are not giving the MUCH more so needed admonishments of being ready for the event.


Lord Jesus was more than adamant and unyielding in telling us firstly and foremost in a series or progression, to be ready.


Getting ready for a trip takes little effort when it comes to knowing that the trip will take place.


Having an idea as to when it will take place is ok.


BUT…


Preparing for this trip takes a lifetime.



Love,


Brother Jerry

All scripture not noted is New Living Translation
]]> Eschatology B1inHim http://www.christianforums.com/t7417395/ The Vatican http://www.christianforums.com/t7417281/ Fri, 13 Nov 2009 05:15:52 GMT Is this significant that the Vatican has put out a statement about aliens? This quote is from the F DiMora's prophecy teaching site.

Remember what I told you about extraterrestrials? Nov. 11, 2009

Does anyone remember the warning I gave you from my Oct. 5, and 22 posts that you will soon hear more news about aliens from our world leaders. It has been just a month and look what has shown up in the news again. I quote, “VATICAN CITY – E.T. phone Rome. Four hundred years after it locked up Galileo for challenging the view that the Earth was the center of the universe, the Vatican has called in experts to study the possibility of extraterrestrial alien life and its implication for the Catholic Church. "The questions of life's origins and of whether life exists elsewhere in the universe are very suitable and deserve serious consideration," said the Rev. Jose Gabriel Funes, an astronomer and director of the Vatican Observatory.” This is a section of what I had written you concerning this issue. “In my post dated Oct. 5, 2009 I was lead to give you a warning that we may see and hear about in the near future.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091110/ap_on_sc/eu_vatican_aliens ]]> Eschatology gracechick http://www.christianforums.com/t7417281/ The seals of Rev. /Moses and Iraq http://www.christianforums.com/t7417164/ Thu, 12 Nov 2009 20:07:40 GMT If you wanted to take a good look at what the seals mean - just where would you start?

Well, what does the bible say about such things as

"thunder"
before the first seal rider

a white animal type of rider

"conquering and to conquer"
As in just what was this first seal rider to conquer?

This rider also has a bow. Do you know that the OT shows to lose a kingdom - means lose the bow?
So wouldn't starting a kingdom somewhere be the act of getting a bow?

The second seal has "they should kill one another".
How about the people in the land that the first rider made a nation?

Where we are at now is the third seal - famine in that land that will end.
as - hurt not the oil and the wine
This is a type of lingo used in the OT to show that God will restore the nation that was besieged or had been in a state of not enough food.

So with my next post I will show how to do the seals, bit by bit. ]]> Eschatology vinsight4u http://www.christianforums.com/t7417164/ Please look at Rev. 11:16 as to the 24 elders that sat http://www.christianforums.com/t7417155/ Thu, 12 Nov 2009 19:34:56 GMT Tie this to the end of Rev. 4.

The seals were actually opened in Rev. 4.

The 24 elders that wear crowns - sit before God (on their seats), till the 7th trumpet has sounded.


7th trumpet Rev. 11:16
"And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell..." ]]> Eschatology vinsight4u http://www.christianforums.com/t7417155/