Donald Trump indicted by Manhattan grand jury

[BPPLEE]

Trump once again is his own worst enemy, even how in he handled this Manhattan mess. Michael Cohen as he was being indicted sought a pardon from Trump. Trump has pardoned it seems everyone under the sun for the wrong reasons. He pardoned Sheriff Joe Arpaio for the wrong reasons. He pardoned everyone in his circle who served jail, was in jail, sentenced and about to serve jail, or also indicted. He even pardoned some people who are now back in jail after committing crimes after being pardoned. So why didn't he just pardon Cohen and get rid of the whole situation? They often say with Trump loyalty is a one way street. Even if he felt Cohen wronged him in some way, his disregard for norms or just doing the right thing wasn't a road block to pardoning Cohen.

Cohen publicly stated (and in court under oath) that he would not accept a pardon from Trump. https://www.npr.org/2019/03/07/701081872/cohen-trump-and-the-pardon-that-wasnt

 

[Hans Blaster]

The very day the man is indicted - the courts order Stormy to pay President Trump a total of $621,962.56 in damages from a lawsuit about their alleged affair.

Those are called attorney fees. It's what often happens when you sue (as Ms. Daniels did) and lose. You have to reimburse the fees they paid to their lawyers.


(OTOH, when you need to reimburse your lawyer for payments they made to pay hush money to your flings, the normal procedure is apparently to double the amount so that when your lawyer claims your payment as income rather than as reimbursement they are made whole after paying taxes on it.)

You can't make this stuff up!

But if you don't know what you're talking about it sure looks like it.

 

[mark46]

Fact: the statute of limitations for fraud in New York state is 6 years. Fact: the alleged crime took place in October 2016. Now what do you make of that?

that you don't understand NY law

There is a process of tolling, delaying the statute of limitations
========================
If the statute of limitation applied, then there would be no charges. Obviously, this will be an immediate appeal that will be made, rejected and appealed.

Basically what you are saying is that Trump sis immune from all prosecution, first because he was president, and then because hof the statute of limitations. Of course, many now think that he is immune util after the 2024 elections.

 

[BPPLEE]

Those are called attorney fees. It's what often happens when you sue (as Ms. Daniels did) and lose. You have to reimburse the fees they paid to their lawyers.


(OTOH, when you need to reimburse your lawyer for payments they made to pay hush money to your flings, the normal procedure is apparently to double the amount so that when your lawyer claims your payment as income rather than as reimbursement they are made whole after paying taxes on it.)


But if you don't know what you're talking about it sure looks like it.

Why can’t I pay my lawyer back however I please?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Why can’t I pay my lawyer back however I please?

You can lavish him with gifts for all I care, but you can't then claim it as a business expense for 'legal services' that were never performed.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Why can’t I pay my lawyer back however I please?

'Cause your lawyer is not going to pay income taxes on your expense reimbursement.

A better question is why would you pay your lawyer back double if you didn't find some advantage in it.

When I have traveled on company business, I get reimbursed for my actual expenses (rental cars, flights, hotels) and it is not taxable income, it was just a company expense made with my credit card.

Trump pretended his repayment of the Stormy Daniels payoff was lawyers fees, so he paid double so Cohen would be fully compensated after tax. If he'd just called the payment a reimbursement for expenditures rendered on Trump's behalf by Cohen, the cost would have only been $130,000 to Trump or Trump Org.

 

[BPPLEE]

You can lavish him with gifts for all I care, but you can't then claim it as a business expense for 'legal services' that were never performed.

If my lawyer paid someone on my behalf and I compensated him for it I would consider it a legal service. I’m not sure legally what it would be considered. I wouldn’t make a note in my ledger that it was hush money

 

[Hans Blaster]

If my lawyer paid someone on my behalf and I compensated him for it I would consider it a legal service.

If your lawyer was purchasing things on your behalf, say things with legal complications to work out, the part of your payment to him for the cost of the item would not be a legal service and he would not call that income.

For example, if your laywer finds, negotiates, and settles a deal for a $600,000 item, takes 50 billable hours (at $1000/hr), and accrues $4000 in miscellaneous expenses (registration fees, tolls, fuel, shipping, whatever), your bill will be $654,000 of which $50,000 is income that is taxible and the rest isn't. No non-corrupt lawyer (and Cohen was definitely corrupt) would want the whole thing billed as "legal services" given the tax implication. (And if you start billing for hours that didn't happen and send the bill through the mail, that's mail fraud. Just ask Mitch McDeere, esq.)

I’m not sure legally what it would be considered. I wouldn’t make a note in my ledger that it was hush money

If the entry in your ledger is false that's illegal in NY. If it is in function of some other crime, then it is a Class E felony.

 

[Ceallaigh]

that you don't understand NY law

There is a process of tolling, delaying the statute of limitations
========================
If the statute of limitation applied, then there would be no charges. Obviously, this will be an immediate appeal that will be made, rejected and appealed.

Basically what you are saying is that Trump sis immune from all prosecution, first because he was president, and then because hof the statute of limitations. Of course, many now think that he is immune util after the 2024 elections.

I'm not saying anything. I just looked up the statute of limitations and the date the alleged crime took place. Then I asked you what you made of it, because I don't know what to make of it myself.

 

[BPPLEE]

If your lawyer was purchasing things on your behalf, say things with legal complications to work out, the part of your payment to him for the cost of the item would not be a legal service and he would not call that income.

For example, if your laywer finds, negotiates, and settles a deal for a $600,000 item, takes 50 billable hours (at $1000/hr), and accrues $4000 in miscellaneous expenses (registration fees, tolls, fuel, shipping, whatever), your bill will be $654,000 of which $50,000 is income that is taxible and the rest isn't. No non-corrupt lawyer (and Cohen was definitely corrupt) would want the whole thing billed as "legal services" given the tax implication. (And if you start billing for hours that didn't happen and send the bill through the mail, that's mail fraud. Just ask Mitch McDeere, esq.)

If the entry in your ledger is false that's illegal in NY. If it is in function of some other crime, then it is a Class E felony.

Then maybe they’ve got Trump unless the statute of limitations is passed.

 

[hislegacy]

But if you don't know what you're talking about it sure looks like it.

Oh, trust me after close to seven years of Trump hatred I am well aware of what it looks like, sounds like and fails like

 

[Hans Blaster]

Then maybe they’ve got Trump unless the statute of limitations is passed.

Indeed, which is why I have said I don't think the DA would file such charges unless their legal theory also covered the statute of limitations.

(I have heard that the limit tolls when the subject leaves the state, but not confirmed that.)

 

[Say it aint so]

Cohen publicly stated (and in court under oath) that he would not accept a pardon from Trump. https://www.npr.org/2019/03/07/701081872/cohen-trump-and-the-pardon-that-wasnt

That was after things went sideways. From the Mueller report:

In an email that day to Cohen, [Robert] Costello wrote that he had spoken with Giuliani.1026 Costello told Cohen the conversation was “Very Very Positive[.] You are ‘loved’. . . they are in our corner. . . . Sleep well tonight[], you have friends in high places.”1027
Cohen said that following these messages he believed he had the support of the White House if he continued to toe the party line, and he determined to stay on message and be part of the team.1028 At the time, Cohen’s understood that his legal fees were still being paid by the Trump Organization, which he said was important to him.1029 Cohen believed he needed the power of the President to take care of him, so he needed to defend the President and stay on message.1030
Cohen also recalled speaking with the President’s personal counsel about pardons after the searches of his home and office had occurred, at a time when the media had reported that pardon discussions were occurring at the White House.1031 Cohen told the President’s personal counsel he had been a loyal lawyer and servant, and he said that after the searches he was in an uncomfortable position and wanted to know what was in it for him.1032 According to Cohen, the President’s personal counsel responded that Cohen should stay on message, that the investigation was a witch hunt, and that everything would be fine.1033

 

[Valletta]

Those are called attorney fees. It's what often happens when you sue (as Ms. Daniels did) and lose. You have to reimburse the fees they paid to their lawyers.


(OTOH, when you need to reimburse your lawyer for payments they made to pay hush money to your flings, the normal procedure is apparently to double the amount so that when your lawyer claims your payment as income rather than as reimbursement they are made whole after paying taxes on it.)


But if you don't know what you're talking about it sure looks like it.

Both sides, Trump and Stormy Daniels, deny having sex. Yet you talk about "flings." What has been happening is the persecution of Trump or those who may support him. Our U.S. Constitution is being violated when a person is held without trial for two years, or information to obtain a general warrant to raid Trump's residence is falsified, or, as in this case, the details of the charges against a person are not presented. Democrats have interfered in the presidential election process before by working with social media to suppress stories that might hurt Biden, now they are scheduling a trial of Trump to coincide with the beginning of the presidential primary season. Let's not forget about the second impeachment of Trump when he was out of office, and the numerous hoaxes against Trump to falsely discredit him. All of this distracts from the cowtowing by the Biden administration to the Chinese, and the numerous flagged financial transactions discovered involving Biden family transactions with Chinese-involved entities. The last I heard around 250 such transactions had been flagged, that is an incredible amount. And there is still one unnamed Biden involved. Democrats who care about due process and blind justice should urge that the charges against Trump be quickly dropped.

 

[GDL]

Oh, trust me after close to seven years of Trump hatred I am well aware of what it looks like, sounds like and fails like

Nice change of expected next to last word.

 

[BPPLEE]

That was after things went sideways. From the Mueller report:

Your post has nothing to do with Cohen saying he wouldn’t accept a pardon. I don’t know what your point is. Cohen is obviously bitter and out to get revenge.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Cohen is obviously bitter and out to get revenge.

As long as he tells the truth on the stand, that's fine.

 

[BPPLEE]

As long as he tells the truth on the stand, that's fine.

He’s admitted to lying. If I was on Trumps defense team I would love having this guy as a witness for the prosecution

 

[hedrick]

Meanwhile, on the same day:

“BREAKING!!! the 9th Circuit just awarded Trump $121,962.56 in attorney fees from Stormy Daniels. Order just released. This in addition to the roughly $500k she already owes him,” the former president’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., wrote in a tweet Tuesday.​

​

The very day the man is indicted - the courts order Stormy to pay President Trump a total of $621,962.56 in damages from a lawsuit about their alleged affair.

You can't make this stuff up!

I don’t think it matters what he did to Daniels. He could pay to silence someone even if he isn’t guilty. That he did that seems pretty well established. Whether falsifying accounts of it is a crime remains to be seen. Reasonable people are on both sides.

 

[Valletta]

I don’t think it matters what he did to Daniels. He could pay to silence someone even if he isn’t guilty. That he did that seems pretty well established. Whether falsifying accounts of it is a crime remains to be seen. Reasonable people are on both sides.

Actually there are not reasonable people on both sides. The indictment lacked any specific details as to the crimes committed by Trump. If Trump is being charged with 34 felonies under the U.S. Constitution he has a right to know the specific charges. Bragg is making a mockery of the law and New York is spending millions of dollars for a political witch hunt.